underwhelmed with Neverwinter Campaign Setting

[Dannyalcatraz]

Not everyone shops at Amazon, for a variety of reasons.

 

[KarinsDad]

An interesting set of facts that in no way affects my opinion of what I would be willing to pay for what was in the book in question.

You may feel that's enough, and you have every right to feel that way. But I'm not shelling out more than $10 for what I saw. It just won't happen.

Fair enough.

But your point that I was responding to was your question on where the crunch was. It's not a crunch book. It's a DM campaign and idea book, and one that builds on FR books that have already come out (where more crunch exists).

You don't want that, obviously you should talk with your (lack of) money being shelled out.

But don't expect a lot of crunch to be in a follow on campaign setting book. WotC only puts enough of it in there to get a percentage of players to buy the book so that not only DMs buy it.


Dark Sun's Campaign had a ton of items in it and quite a few Epic Destinies and Paragon Paths and such, but that's because the setting is pretty far removed from the standard core assumptions, and there was no Player's Guide for it. In order to get PCs to feel different than other campaign settings, the crunch was required.

Forgotten Realms is pretty close to the core setting feel-wise and many Paragon Paths, Epic Destinies, and items have already been handed out in the Forgotten Realms Players Guide.

Ditto for Eberron.

If you expect WotC to always put the same types of books out, then you will be underwhelmed if they don't meet your expectations. Dark Sun needed a ton of crunch to get the Dark Sun flavor especially because they had to combine the Player's Guide into the Campaign Setting book.

A city campaign guide in Forgotten Realms doesn't have that need.

 

[Retreater]

I was aware that NWCS was a campaign guide and not a Player's Option book, bestiary, or adventure. My disappointment is that there seems to be little information on the setting that seems useful. Looking through it, I have no idea where to start the adventurers, nor a place that would be a good adventure locale, nor a compelling antagonist or story arc.

In short, why not pick up a novel such as Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn or George R R Martin's Game of Thrones to be inspired by a setting and characters?

A roleplaying game supplement should contribute directly to the game more than giving inspiration and ideas to a DM, something that is found in better quality and more affordably in the fantasy fiction section of a local library.

Give suggestions of story arcs that a group can follow. Suggest an adventure to the ruined keep where the unholy monks control access to the portal that leads to the treasury so the group can pilfer the coffers of the corrupt noble family. Otherwise, all we have are unconnected characters inhabiting random sites.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Not everyone shops at Amazon, for a variety of reasons.

Fighting a losing battle with that one chap. Convenience, price and depth of product choices wins out every time.

 

[Dice4Hire]

A roleplaying game supplement should contribute directly to the game more than giving inspiration and ideas to a DM, something that is found in better quality and more affordably in the fantasy fiction section of a local library.

.

I think you are not comparing similar things here.

Sure, novels might have ideas, but how do they play? If the hero is the best mage, swrodfighter and ladies man in the world, where does the leave everyone else? How can you take that idea and put it onto a game that works?

Neverwinter is written to be played in a RPG, and to be played with the 4E ruleset.

That is a big difference.

 

[Dead Scribe]

I was aware that NWCS was a campaign guide and not a Player's Option book, bestiary, or adventure. My disappointment is that there seems to be little information on the setting that seems useful. Looking through it, I have no idea where to start the adventurers, nor a place that would be a good adventure locale, nor a compelling antagonist or story arc.

I'm sorry to ask, but... have you read the book? Because once your players pick Themes, most of those questions are answered for you. Is one of your players a n Heir of Delzoun? If so, then finding and reclaiming Gauntlegrym is probably going to be a major focus of your campaign. And when you know that, you know that your players are going to be up against the Ashmodai and the Abolethic Sovereignty. Is another player an Ilyanbruen Guardian? Then the group is probably going to come into some conflict with the Netherese Shadovar who have been looting his cultural heritage.

On the other hand, if your players have themes like Neverwinter Noble, Oghma's Faithful, and Son of Alagondar, the party is probably going to be a lot more involved in the political skullduggery of Neverwinter proper, plotting with or aganist Lord Neverember and his agents. But if you want to throw in some undead from Thay, then the chapter on the Thayans has a few suggestions on how they might be connected to Lord Nevember.

The whole book is designed so that the Themes your players pick will inform how to structure your campaign. And you don't have to guess--most of the Factions and locations have sidebars that say "Hey, X type of Character is going to be interested in this!" or "These guys could cause your Y player trouble!"

And if this stuff isn't a pretty useful way to structure a Neverwinter campaign guide... what is?

 

[JeffB]

Not much crunch? Are we sure this is a WOTC product?


Sandboxy?

Easily used for 4E Realms or dropping into a homebrew?

Full of plot hooks and factions without a bunch of dictation on how you should be using all this material/telling me how to run my game?


SOLD!!

 

[Kzach]

Not everyone shops at Amazon, for a variety of reasons.

Then don't complain about the price. You can get it cheaper elsewhere and choose not to. You can't then come in and say, "It's too expensive and so it's not worth it!"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Fighting a losing battle with that one chap. Convenience, price and depth of product choices wins out every time.

1) Convenience is subjective. I find it convenient to be able to walk into a store and have my product in hand day 1, along with being able to browse an entire store without the "blinders" that a search engine necessarily imparts upon the shopper. Shopping online, I have to be fairly specific about what I'm looking for, and the results may contain wildly extraneous results. If I go into my FLGS and ask for RPGs, I'll be sent to RPGs. I just tried that at Amazon, and was directed to computer games first.

2) Price is but one way in which retailers compete in the market, and depth of product choices can be an advantage or disadvantage depending upon the exact details. You can have any product in the world to sell me, but if I can't find it for whatever reason, I'll look elsewhere.

I buy from places I like & trust; from retailers who are not cross-subsidizing products; from stores with well-informed & helpful employees. And I'm happy to pay extra for that. And just so we're perfectly clear on that, that does NOT mean I don't buy things online.

Is it a losing battle? Only time will tell.

Then don't complain about the price. You can get it cheaper elsewhere and choose not to. You can't then come in and say, "It's too expensive and so it's not worth it!"

1) Did you notice that I said "a variety of reasons"? Of course not. Amazingly enough, I know people who do not have the ability to shop online at all. For them, there is no "cheaper place" than the local bookstore.

2) Did you notice that the price I said I'd pay for it was even lower than the price Amazon's selling it for? Thus, I can still say "It is too expensive for me; I don't think it is worth its price." Even at Amazon's price. My position stands.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Paragon Paths unique to the setting? Gear? Feats? Powers? Builds?

Neverwinter is meant to be a heroic-tier campaign setting, so it stands to reason there wouldn't be paragon paths.

Which was my conclusion. I don't need- and thus, don't buy- books that are 85+% fluff unless they are heavily discounted. WotC won't see a dime for NWN from me because it's lack of crunch means I won't buy it until it hits the used book stores.

And this is a valuable data point for them: knowing why a segment of the market doesn't purchase their product is as important as knowing why others did.

This all goes back to the idea that we gamers are a varied lot. While you didn't care for the fluff, I was happy to see it. Now, I like a little crunch, but I like those setting and flavor aspects too.

Neverwinter really felt fresh to me. It was the first time in ages that I was interested in the Realms. Plus, now I want to read the Neverwinter books.

If Neverwinter isn't a person's cup of tea, that's fine. There are plenty of other books out there. For me, I liked it, and am looking forward to reading up on it more.