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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Son of the Serpent" data-source="post: 7825668" data-attributes="member: 7015476">"Was thinking about this as well. But in different terms.First of all, there is nothing in the PHB or MM, that would give you direct control over, for example a fiend."Hmmm.  Might be misremembering and i dont know for sure which edition your perspective is from but i was thinking from an admittedly 3/3.5 perspective.  Are spells like planar binding and gate not in phb?  There are several others too but im more thinking those are in spell compendium and others.  A devils true name is relevant to those.  Further, its not necessarily what you can do that is the primary reason you would be on the fiend's list of concerns.  Its what you could easily be able to do later after someone else gets their hands on you or you learn just a luttle more.  Someone with true name magic is essentially someone whos a partially readymade threat for one of their enemies.  Also, infernal contracts arent really covered in dmg and phb but true names are commonly used to further empower them whenever possible.  Also i wasnt talking about the player making said contracts.  I was actually talking about the fiend.  Information like true names and how to use them are regulated like plutonium and uranium in such a society."In the case of the devils you'd need their name on an amulet to gain full control. The name is not the problem, but the sacrifice of (typically) somebody the PC loves isn't something that'll occur too often. Either by player's choice or by DM's intervention.Demon Binding too requires blood of the innocent etc. etc. otherwise there is nothing to be found except that you gain some measure of control over the fiend, like in the case with devils."Again.  Other people with means potentially using you are the primary reason you would be threatening to them.  Also controlling them is not the only thing for them to fear.  So many possibilities.  Further, what you can do with the name and the implements necessary are variable."Now what is that measure of control you get?Say you cast Summon Greater Demon.That demon get's disadvantage for its saving throw against your summoning spell if you get its name, that's it so far. It still gets to make a save at the end of each of its rounds, if it wants to.Arguably in the case of this spell, you could just order it to tell you its name. No onomancy required. Would fit thematically though.The same goes with Infernal Calling."This is another thing affected by ingame context and dorect magical control is not the only way to gain a lot of control over a fiend via a true name or knowledge of true naming.  Consider this scenario.  You summon a demon or devil.  You get them to do whatever you say because you have given knowledge of how to trigger some nasty events involving the dissemination of a true name and a few other elements if your whims arent met and you show proof of the plan being absolutely loaded and ready to fire without showing enough of your hand for the outsider to so anything about it.  You now have a powerful toady for at least a little while who is a bit afraid to screw you over and may try once or twice but will stop when you strike back with just a couple of your more minor prepared plans for said subterfuge.  The fact that you could be a clever little thorn in their side if they arent helpful goes a long way."There's not too much you can do except give them disadvantage against a saving throw at this point. The whole shtick with the power of names and gaining control seems not as threatening as depicted in the MM when expressed in mechanical terms."The majority of the power in a true name is its potential within the lore.  And realistic psychology.  For hard canonical plot reasons it gets results even though its through something soft like rp.  Even if not every character is sharp enough to know how a fiend will not let a potential major source of problems like this just go bumbling around without being addressed aggressively."Also a thing about wording. You "mentally learn" the name of the creature you're using Extract Names on.As long as you don't intend to keep that creature alive after either casting Bane upon it or use a Resonant Utterance, it won't matter. If you intend to keep it alive you can either choose to not speak its name until a point where you need the name. It won't know.Afaik it's unclear whether any kind of creatures have knowledge of their true name. They might know OF true names, but not their true name. At least with humanoids on the material plane that seems to be the case. Wouldn't rule that differently for fiends.So even by speaking a fiend's true name, it could be argued that it doesn't know that it name has been spoken (as part of the bane spell for example)."This is a fair point.  Most beings within the multiverse have no clue what their true name is.  But the ones who do will guard it jealously."Now in your example of Baator. I guess a devil would think twice about getting the news spread around that there's an onomancer on its layer. How would that devil know, other than having it's name extracted? That imp/devil will not have it's name changed upon promotion.You could turn your argument around and say devils have way too much to lose if somebody knows their name and will likely be very careful whenn approaching that problem. And the onomancer is a valuable resource to many a devil."An imp is actually pretty smart.  They are definitely going to leave as quickly as possible so they are going to assume (with good reason) that due to lying low and not being the primary obvious threat in an encounter their true name is probably secure.  They are just going to immediately get the baator out of luskin and tell the devil there is someone running around with true name competancy and loose lips."There is also no official ruling about how much devils know from their past life. Lemures don't remember squat. That's in the book. So as long as you didn't get your infernal rank through selling your soul, that's not a real danger. The elven wizard who very likely knows about onomancy but is now an imp example is a bit hypothetical."Actually it is official that a good portion of imps remember past life knowledge.  It is also official that generally devils are actually rewarded with recovering more complete advantage as they advance in the heierarchy.  Its not entieely consistant but the higher up the chain the more is remembered.  And its a completely different story in many cases where someone was rewarded with becoming a devil directly as they frequently keep it all.  Again not always."I'd say as long as you play it smart, which as a wizard, you probably should be. It's fine."A smart wizard with knowledge of true naming woild likely not use true name relevant knowledge in hell at all BECAUSE hes smart though.  Unless done with the blessing of baator.  Thats a whole different kettle of nupperiboos.</blockquote>

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