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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7713350" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>So I've been looking some more into these "complications" and while yes, I understand DMs can create their own or mix and match or what have you.... some of these are just strange choices.</p><p></p><p>For example, look at the chart for Buying a Magic Item. Now, I understand there is only a 10% chance of Complications, but if they do occur fully half of the options are that you don't get an item you can use (Item is fake, Item is Stolen, Seller was Killed, Seller is a Devil [sell your soul for that amulet of protection?]. Item is cursed by a God [so sorry about that Decanter of Endless water that gives you fatigue], Item is actually an enslaved intelligent entity [so paladin, want to free the soul trapped in that ring of spell storing?])</p><p></p><p>Some of the others are also kind of jerky. Oh, you wanted to buy that Bag of Holding with your last 100 gold, well someone else offered 190, can you out bide him? You know, that +1 sword is the only key to Tharizdun's tomb, so this cult is after it and if they get it they can destroy the world. Funny coincidence huh?</p><p></p><p>It just seems to discourage trying, it's long, expensive, and equally likely to get you nothing or more trouble. Simply wait to find magic items during the course of the campaign (cause if your DM isn;t going to be doing that, they aren't going to let you buy them either)</p><p></p><p></p><p>So instead of buying the item, let's make one. Like say, a cleric wants to make a blessed mace. Then we roll complications and it turns out people think you are making blood sacrifices. As a cleric that means you are committing heresy, congrats, you now get excommunicated from the church for committing high crimes and are probably going to be executed. Or some random dwarf clan that you've never heard of, hears you are making something and decide that you stole that knowledge from them... </p><p></p><p></p><p>You know what, if you're going to be accused of terrible things, might as well do them anyways. Commit a crime, steal a bunch of stuff. Complication? You ruined the guy you stole from... okay... and? If I cared about other people's feelings or situation I wouldn't be a thief stealing from random people for no other reason than I want money. Moral thieves don't do that, and if I ruin someone who deserves it... then I did an even better job than I thought, go me!</p><p></p><p>Or you anger someone powerful and derail the plot as a paladin or thief lord is now looking for you. In fact, a lot of these end up with people wanting you dead. When the party wonders why the fighter was stabbed to death by assassins... it's because he got into a pit fight and got some noble angry at him for being better than the noble's man. Cleric dragged to the gallows, guess he should be more careful what he says in Church, since Blasphemy is against the very nature of the Gods. </p><p></p><p>It goes on. </p><p></p><p>Most of these complications are either entirely out of character (why would my wizard care if someone else wants to watch him work?) or will become the focus of the game and distract from the main story (we discover the bishop of the sun church is a demon worshipper, that is probably something we should deal with instead of going on that caravan trip to track down that thief who stole our treasure map. Otherwise, he'll get us branded as heretics and we may come back after he's opened a Hellmouth beneath the temple and summoned the dead to devour the living.) I'm all for messing with the player's and introducing plot hooks, but eventually if this sort of thing happens enough the players are going to decide not to bother with any of this stuff. It's expensive, takes a long time, and generally hurts them more than it was worth in the first place. </p><p></p><p>The players are better off just telling me what they want to do and me just deciding the results of that instead of having these tables.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7713350, member: 6801228"] So I've been looking some more into these "complications" and while yes, I understand DMs can create their own or mix and match or what have you.... some of these are just strange choices. For example, look at the chart for Buying a Magic Item. Now, I understand there is only a 10% chance of Complications, but if they do occur fully half of the options are that you don't get an item you can use (Item is fake, Item is Stolen, Seller was Killed, Seller is a Devil [sell your soul for that amulet of protection?]. Item is cursed by a God [so sorry about that Decanter of Endless water that gives you fatigue], Item is actually an enslaved intelligent entity [so paladin, want to free the soul trapped in that ring of spell storing?]) Some of the others are also kind of jerky. Oh, you wanted to buy that Bag of Holding with your last 100 gold, well someone else offered 190, can you out bide him? You know, that +1 sword is the only key to Tharizdun's tomb, so this cult is after it and if they get it they can destroy the world. Funny coincidence huh? It just seems to discourage trying, it's long, expensive, and equally likely to get you nothing or more trouble. Simply wait to find magic items during the course of the campaign (cause if your DM isn;t going to be doing that, they aren't going to let you buy them either) So instead of buying the item, let's make one. Like say, a cleric wants to make a blessed mace. Then we roll complications and it turns out people think you are making blood sacrifices. As a cleric that means you are committing heresy, congrats, you now get excommunicated from the church for committing high crimes and are probably going to be executed. Or some random dwarf clan that you've never heard of, hears you are making something and decide that you stole that knowledge from them... You know what, if you're going to be accused of terrible things, might as well do them anyways. Commit a crime, steal a bunch of stuff. Complication? You ruined the guy you stole from... okay... and? If I cared about other people's feelings or situation I wouldn't be a thief stealing from random people for no other reason than I want money. Moral thieves don't do that, and if I ruin someone who deserves it... then I did an even better job than I thought, go me! Or you anger someone powerful and derail the plot as a paladin or thief lord is now looking for you. In fact, a lot of these end up with people wanting you dead. When the party wonders why the fighter was stabbed to death by assassins... it's because he got into a pit fight and got some noble angry at him for being better than the noble's man. Cleric dragged to the gallows, guess he should be more careful what he says in Church, since Blasphemy is against the very nature of the Gods. It goes on. Most of these complications are either entirely out of character (why would my wizard care if someone else wants to watch him work?) or will become the focus of the game and distract from the main story (we discover the bishop of the sun church is a demon worshipper, that is probably something we should deal with instead of going on that caravan trip to track down that thief who stole our treasure map. Otherwise, he'll get us branded as heretics and we may come back after he's opened a Hellmouth beneath the temple and summoned the dead to devour the living.) I'm all for messing with the player's and introducing plot hooks, but eventually if this sort of thing happens enough the players are going to decide not to bother with any of this stuff. It's expensive, takes a long time, and generally hurts them more than it was worth in the first place. The players are better off just telling me what they want to do and me just deciding the results of that instead of having these tables. [/QUOTE]
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