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Unearthed Arcana Explores Downtime Activities
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7713405" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm confused how you see a character building moment here.</p><p></p><p>Either </p><p>A) The Wizard player just says "Yeah, sure what do I care" and nothing happens </p><p></p><p>B) The DM insists on this being bad, because it is a complication, perhaps making up reasons the character doesn't want this guy (or insisting the player makes up a reason) or messing them over for letting the guy watch (hey you were nice, let's make sure you don't do that again) or </p><p></p><p>C) very, very rarely, they might decide that this complication is actually a reward, which is against the nature of the event and what is expected according to the UA</p><p></p><p></p><p>IF you have C, I could see character interactions come from this, but the other two aren't good character building moments to me</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, huh?</p><p></p><p>I wasn't talking about the characters realizing all of this was a bad deal. I'm talking about the players. If they see time after time that doing these downtimes cost them a lot of hard earned money, give them almost no positive results, and instead just make them enemies all over town. They are going to stop using them. The Blacksmith will stop smithing, the librarian will stop researching, the cleric will stop doing holy services, not because their characters would actually want to stop, but because it ends up sucking to try and do things. </p><p></p><p>That isn't great roleplay anymore than it is for them to stop trusting NPCs because the DM insists every NPC they befriend will eventually betray them. It's just them reacting to the incentives in the game.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Which incidentally, leads me to another oddity here. </p><p></p><p>I've been talking a lot about how long it takes to craft, especially on other forums, but not all these activities take the same amount of time. </p><p></p><p>Let's say you have a 3 man party. </p><p></p><p>1 decides to craft a suit of mail, this takes him 4 months, 16 weeks</p><p></p><p>1 Decides to go on a crime spree. Targeting only DC 10 targets he'll make 400 gold almost guaranteed as he rolls 48 checks. Odds are he'll get at least four complications, making enemies, going to jail, and ruining people's lives. Actually a Rogue or a player whose confident enough to go after DC 15 targets can make 800 gold (with expertise in the skills a rogue is very likely to get those 15's), and a high level rogue with Reliable Talent can possbly hit DC 20 reliably enough to make 1600 gold.</p><p></p><p>The last just wants to get drunk. Rolling 16 times on carousing they will probably make at least 2 enemies, gain 14 favors, and lose a minimum of 400 gold while getting all sorts of shenagins.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, and between the Rogue and the last guy, you've got six pressing quests to fix all the stuff they did. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I get some people like all the options and hooks here, but it very quickly gets out of hand if you go in under the assumption that none of this connects to the main plot. </p><p></p><p>I want value here, but the rules aren't giving me new things, just making the old ones harder or more expensive (or not fixing them). Even the foils rules are essentially "don't forget NPCs exist and may not like the party"... yes, that is the point of NPCs is it not? To exist, make the world more real, and have their own goals and agendas that may or may not interfere with the party.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7713405, member: 6801228"] I'm confused how you see a character building moment here. Either A) The Wizard player just says "Yeah, sure what do I care" and nothing happens B) The DM insists on this being bad, because it is a complication, perhaps making up reasons the character doesn't want this guy (or insisting the player makes up a reason) or messing them over for letting the guy watch (hey you were nice, let's make sure you don't do that again) or C) very, very rarely, they might decide that this complication is actually a reward, which is against the nature of the event and what is expected according to the UA IF you have C, I could see character interactions come from this, but the other two aren't good character building moments to me Again, huh? I wasn't talking about the characters realizing all of this was a bad deal. I'm talking about the players. If they see time after time that doing these downtimes cost them a lot of hard earned money, give them almost no positive results, and instead just make them enemies all over town. They are going to stop using them. The Blacksmith will stop smithing, the librarian will stop researching, the cleric will stop doing holy services, not because their characters would actually want to stop, but because it ends up sucking to try and do things. That isn't great roleplay anymore than it is for them to stop trusting NPCs because the DM insists every NPC they befriend will eventually betray them. It's just them reacting to the incentives in the game. Which incidentally, leads me to another oddity here. I've been talking a lot about how long it takes to craft, especially on other forums, but not all these activities take the same amount of time. Let's say you have a 3 man party. 1 decides to craft a suit of mail, this takes him 4 months, 16 weeks 1 Decides to go on a crime spree. Targeting only DC 10 targets he'll make 400 gold almost guaranteed as he rolls 48 checks. Odds are he'll get at least four complications, making enemies, going to jail, and ruining people's lives. Actually a Rogue or a player whose confident enough to go after DC 15 targets can make 800 gold (with expertise in the skills a rogue is very likely to get those 15's), and a high level rogue with Reliable Talent can possbly hit DC 20 reliably enough to make 1600 gold. The last just wants to get drunk. Rolling 16 times on carousing they will probably make at least 2 enemies, gain 14 favors, and lose a minimum of 400 gold while getting all sorts of shenagins. Oh, and between the Rogue and the last guy, you've got six pressing quests to fix all the stuff they did. I get some people like all the options and hooks here, but it very quickly gets out of hand if you go in under the assumption that none of this connects to the main plot. I want value here, but the rules aren't giving me new things, just making the old ones harder or more expensive (or not fixing them). Even the foils rules are essentially "don't forget NPCs exist and may not like the party"... yes, that is the point of NPCs is it not? To exist, make the world more real, and have their own goals and agendas that may or may not interfere with the party. [/QUOTE]
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