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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7714019" data-attributes="member: 22779">Apples and oranges though.  A DC 25 Spell save is broken, because DC is what DEFINES the bounds of bounded accuracy.  A DC of 25 in anything is something that should be extremely rare.Additionally, you really are comparing apples to oranges.Say with your feats, I can jack up the DC to 25, but, in order to be a fair comparison, that DC requires 1 minute to achieve.  Is it broken now?How about if you can jack up the DC to 25 but, your spell can only affect a single humanoid within 30 feet of you.  Is this still broken?And, how about spells that do not have saving throws at all?  I can plug away with magic missiles all day long and there's virtually nothing anything can do to stop that damage.  Broken no?  How about all the half damage spells?  I mean, the save DC doesn't actually block damage, simply mitigate it.  If I deal double the target's HP on a 1/2 save spell, the DC doesn't matter.  The target automatically dies.  That's broken too no?So, I'm a 5th level mage, facing off with our putative CR 19 humanoid, and, no matter what, I'm going to deal damage to him with my fireball.  But, this is perfectly acceptable, but, my 13th level rogue who's spent 3 feats intimidating him for 1 round is far too powerful?  I really think people need to revisit what bounded accuracy means again.</blockquote>