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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7714030" data-attributes="member: 6801228">The only scenario where forcing one humanoid creature to attack at disadvantage and not be able to close with the party is a significant factor is when you have 1v1 or 6v1 situations. 6v1 situations already do not work in the game as written, they are close but they don’t really work. 1v1 already has lots of ways it can go horribly wrong.So, no it isn’t broken and I honestly think it may be a little weak for the cost of an attack, or an entire action if you don’t have multi-attack.They weren’t designed for skills in general, if you just pull things straight from the stat block. Actually, this has been a problem for a long time, but the skills description in the beginning of the MM does not prevent you from giving skills or even expertise (which it specifically mentions) to these creatures if it makes sense. To highlight my point, take the Balor and the Pit Fiend. High level fiends, the scariest, the most silver tongued, ect ect ect. They have no training in Persuasion, Deception, or Intimidation. So, even though their natural charismas are +6 and +7 respectively, a level 17 bard without expertise has +11 to those checks, with it they get +17. Insight is even worse, the Pit Fiend, who should clearly be able to tell when someone is lying since he is a lying devil himself, only gets a +4 to insight. A level 1 bard with a high charisma is more than likely able to fool the highest ranked Devil in the book just from RAW numbers, because they’ll have a +8 to deception, double the Pit Fiends ability to see through their lies. Now, there is a simple reason for this. This is the limits of the stat block, I think the devs considered these sort of events would be sort of rare, and that DMs would just give proficiency since it is clear those creatures should have it, but they needed room for the attacks and other special abilities, so they didn’t give them any skills. It was a space issue, and I have no qualms about giving proficiency or Expertise to these creatures because it makes sense. The Devil that has made deceptive contracts with mortals for a thousand years has expertise in deception and insight, because they’ve seen every trick in the book already, they are hard to fool and harder to catch in a lie. Makes perfect sense and it is perfectly within the intentions of the design.</blockquote>

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