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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7714879" data-attributes="member: 16814">There a clever substitution going on in your argument.&nbsp; You've substituted in &quot;can't ever do it without the feat&quot; for &quot;the feat now sets the floor conditions for doing this thing.&quot;&nbsp; Take acrobat, for example.&nbsp; Having the feat exist does not prevent someone without the feat from avoiding difficult terrain, but it does say that to avoid difficult terrain in any and all cases now takes a minimum of a bonus action expended, and a minimum of a DC 15 DEX(acrobatics) check.&nbsp; If you don't have the feat, it, at best, either costs more in action economy or has a higher DC.&nbsp; If you have the feat, then it always costs a bonus action and a DC 15 check, regardless of prevailing circumstance.&nbsp; Breaching either of these cases requires devaluing the feat, which is something DMs should avoid (retroactively reducing the effectiveness of player build choices). Therefore, this puts hard limits on DM adjudication space.&nbsp; As do the feats you've pointed out like Actor and Keen Mind.&nbsp; They engage restraints in the firm of minimums necessary to do something.&nbsp; If I want to mimic a voice using perform, either it must be harder to do than the ability offered in Actor, or I'm devaluing the Actor feat.&nbsp; If I do this before a player takes Actor, fine, but if a player at the table has Actor, then I am removing utility from his limited build choices, and I should not be doing that as a casual matter of play.&nbsp; As a functional matter, mimicry would require an ability check without the feat -- you couldn't just do it (outside of specific and narrow circumstances, like, I'd not call for a role to mimic the speech pattern and sound of your identical twin your close to, but would if you've been imprisoned in an iron mask for years while your twin has been king, frex).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7714879, member: 16814"] There a clever substitution going on in your argument. You've substituted in "can't ever do it without the feat" for "the feat now sets the floor conditions for doing this thing." Take acrobat, for example. Having the feat exist does not prevent someone without the feat from avoiding difficult terrain, but it does say that to avoid difficult terrain in any and all cases now takes a minimum of a bonus action expended, and a minimum of a DC 15 DEX(acrobatics) check. If you don't have the feat, it, at best, either costs more in action economy or has a higher DC. If you have the feat, then it always costs a bonus action and a DC 15 check, regardless of prevailing circumstance. Breaching either of these cases requires devaluing the feat, which is something DMs should avoid (retroactively reducing the effectiveness of player build choices). Therefore, this puts hard limits on DM adjudication space. As do the feats you've pointed out like Actor and Keen Mind. They engage restraints in the firm of minimums necessary to do something. If I want to mimic a voice using perform, either it must be harder to do than the ability offered in Actor, or I'm devaluing the Actor feat. If I do this before a player takes Actor, fine, but if a player at the table has Actor, then I am removing utility from his limited build choices, and I should not be doing that as a casual matter of play. As a functional matter, mimicry would require an ability check without the feat -- you couldn't just do it (outside of specific and narrow circumstances, like, I'd not call for a role to mimic the speech pattern and sound of your identical twin your close to, but would if you've been imprisoned in an iron mask for years while your twin has been king, frex). [/QUOTE]

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