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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Garresh" data-source="post: 7706894" data-attributes="member: 6836323">Dude. You're missing the point. This class has no damage source outside of its own subclasses. Its gun does okay damage. Not great. Just okay. DPR for its peak damage specialization is 8d6+5 at level 14, for a DPR of 33. A warlock does 31.5 at that level. A sharpshooter fighter does 58(with accuracy penalties). That's the HIGH DAMAGE specialization. If they go that route, they don't get any AoEs til high levels, and the AoEs they get are crap. If they go the lower damage alchemist build, their range plummets, their single target DPR is only 24.5, and we already covered how their AoE is not particularly stellar except for being at will.My point is this: Artificer does almost every role, at a SUBPAR level compared to a specialist. It fulfills a role similar to a bard, except bards in 5e are 9th level casters. It also can't frontline. It has pretty good damage, but I can think of 4 classes off the top of my head that outperform it. It can do a lot of utility tricks, but it doesn't outshine rogues or bards. It can heal and buff, but it's no cleric. You're falling prey to the same fallacy you claim I'm doing. You're acting like it gets gunsmith damage and alchemist aoe together. It doesn't. Artificer has to choose. And if it goes one option, it loses heavily in another category. The class is fine.</blockquote>