Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: Psionics and Mystics Take Two

February's Unearthed Arcana article from WotC's Mike Mearls has been posted. This time around, the topic is psionics again "This month, Unearthed Arcana returns to the mystic character class and the rules for psionics. Based on the playtest feedback you sent us, there are a number of changes you can expect." The article expands the Mystic class to 10th level, and adds a variety of new options.

Find the article right here.
 

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What does changing where psionics comes from inside the game world have to do with mechanics, exactly? They made it xoriat to match the whole far realms thing, which is lame to begin with, imo. Without any feedback on that change, it will probably make it to publication, and thus become cannon.

You totally missed his point. It's the same point I made a few pages back.

They are focusing on the mechanics now. They are not focusing on the fluff. Yet.

So, if you don't like the fluff, by all means, speak up (I am!). But try not to get too worked up over it, as once the mechanics of the class are solid, WotC will likely survey us on the fluff.
 

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You totally missed his point. It's the same point I made a few pages back.



They are focusing on the mechanics now. They are not focusing on the fluff. Yet.



So, if you don't like the fluff, by all means, speak up (I am!). But try not to get too worked up over it, as once the mechanics of the class are solid, WotC will likely survey us on the fluff.


I wouldn't make the assumption that they are focusing on the mechanics more than the fluff. In fact, if they are, it's only because they are satisfied with the fluff. That's how ask these playtests have worked. If you don't limit the fluff, make noise about it now.
 

The only thing that's in-congruent, IMO, is that someone with natural magic isn't going to go through the same sort of VSM components as a trained caster.

Actually, almost all of the monsters in the MM that have innate magic still need V,S components, though most of them get to skip material components. There isn't really a true "spell-like ability" in 5e. If it has the name of a spell, you are generally speaking the same magic words as anyone else casting it.
 

This is kinda my issue with psionics in 5E. I don't really mind the Mystic class. I just don't know that it fills a niche I need filled, anymore. Bear with me, for a moment.
...
In 3E, the Sorcerer was pretty much a Wizard for people who didn't like slots. Even in 3.5 the heritage flavor was extremely easy to ignore and just treat them as a different sort of Wizard. In 5E, you must choose an origin and the closest thing to "I don't know" (Wild) really doesn't work well as an alt-Wizard -- not that you need one with the changes to spell slots in 5E.

So, the Sorcerer is now the "I (or someone upstream) was exposed to something unusual so I has cool powers." The only thing that's in-congruent, IMO, is that someone with natural magic isn't going to go through the same sort of VSM components as a trained caster. If you gave sorcerers a way to sub in something else (not just blow points for silent/still metamagic) and maybe added a couple of flavored sub-classes (entropy, planar, whatever), it'd work awesome. There's even a feat that would work great for wild talent.

This is more or less where I'm at. There's really two slants to psionics (or any other system in the game, really). The mechanical, metagame slant is that it's a system for delivering "impossible" effects, and the fluff, in-game slant is why it's not magic. I'm happy have magic and vancian spell slots as my "impossible effects" system, and particularly in 5e, there's a plethora of opportunity with the sorcerer, wizard, and warlock to explore alternate fluff. I find it interesting to read about, and I'm all for WotC exploring it, but they've yet to make it really compelling for me.
 

I am beginning to feel that the problem with psionics fluff isn't with psionics at all - it's with arcane magic. Specifically, that there aren't more things that arcane magic doesn't do well. If psionics were capable of more effects that could only be achieved with psionics, it would have more of its own unique feel.
That's a mistake they've made in every edition so far.

Basically, they figure out a broad spectrum of supernatural stuff that characters should have access to, and at what levels. Then they make most of that stuff available to wizards at those levels. So, for example, if they think outright mind control should be available at 9th level, they make dominate person a 5th level spell.

Later, they want to make more focused, flavorful casters. But since they've already given the wizard all the goodies, there's little design space left for what other classes should be able to do, so they have to focus on gimicky casting methods instead (like power points/pumping for psions in the XPH, or the methods for binders, shadowcasters, and truenamers from Tome of Magic). What they should have done instead is narrow the amount of stuff they let wizards do, thereby leaving room for other classes to fill the void. I think the closest they got to this ideal was actually 4e, where the PHB wizard focused heavily on elemental magic and force magic, with a little bit of illusion and almost no mental magic.
 

The true challenge with Psionics is that serves too many masters. Some want it as a replacement to magic, others want it as an assist to magic and then there are others who want it to be just a repaint of magic.

The motivations for those agendas are all over the map as well. From the player who just has to be different (raises hand), to the munchkin to the GM who doesn't want to deal with more rules when he runs a game (raises hand again.)
 

I want psionic so play mechanically different than spells. Spell points aren't enough to make them different, as I'd really prefer to use spell points with every class.
 

That's a mistake they've made in every edition so far.

Basically, they figure out a broad spectrum of supernatural stuff that characters should have access to, and at what levels. Then they make most of that stuff available to wizards at those levels. So, for example, if they think outright mind control should be available at 9th level, they make dominate person a 5th level spell.

Later, they want to make more focused, flavorful casters. But since they've already given the wizard all the goodies, there's little design space left for what other classes should be able to do, so they have to focus on gimicky casting methods instead (like power points/pumping for psions in the XPH, or the methods for binders, shadowcasters, and truenamers from Tome of Magic). What they should have done instead is narrow the amount of stuff they let wizards do, thereby leaving room for other classes to fill the void. I think the closest they got to this ideal was actually 4e, where the PHB wizard focused heavily on elemental magic and force magic, with a little bit of illusion and almost no mental magic.
Your analysis is correct, except for one thing:

Many play Wizards, few play Psions.

Keeping goodies out of the PHB is always the real mistake.
 

Some really good points made in this thread and I agree this second take on the Mystic is a vast improvement over the first draft. I'm a long time fan of psionics and I was really not thrilled by the first version we saw. As others have pointed out there are some significant balance issues still, particularly with Lethal Strike. Here are my suggestions for fixes:

1) Limit Lethal Strike to only usable once per turn. This singular ability seems to be the big burst damage add that is throwing the balance off. Rather than mess with the whole point system, better I think to just tweak the ability.

2) With Lethal Strike limited, you can now give the Order of the Immortal a second attack as part of their 6th level Order feature.

3) Cutting Resonance seems a bit redundant. Extra damage is always nice, but I wonder if it wouldn't be more interesting for the psychic warrior to have some kind fear effect tied to their melee attacks. Usable once per turn, attack has to hit, target is frightened for 1 round, save as normal.
 

That's a mistake they've made in every edition so far.

Basically, they figure out a broad spectrum of supernatural stuff that characters should have access to, and at what levels. Then they make most of that stuff available to wizards at those levels. So, for example, if they think outright mind control should be available at 9th level, they make dominate person a 5th level spell.

Later, they want to make more focused, flavorful casters. But since they've already given the wizard all the goodies, there's little design space left for what other classes should be able to do, so they have to focus on gimicky casting methods instead (like power points/pumping for psions in the XPH, or the methods for binders, shadowcasters, and truenamers from Tome of Magic). What they should have done instead is narrow the amount of stuff they let wizards do, thereby leaving room for other classes to fill the void. I think the closest they got to this ideal was actually 4e, where the PHB wizard focused heavily on elemental magic and force magic, with a little bit of illusion and almost no mental magic.

I think, as others have pointed out, that arcane magic should be broad in scope. People expect wizardly types to have access to all sorts of abilities at once, masters of utility and choices.

However, I think they should be less...focused in power, except for the big flashy stuff that wizards and the like are most known for. That is to say, giving arcane magic access to most of the TYPES of abilities in the game (honestly, probably even healing since in many stories of old, wizards and witches and the like can heal wounds with their magic as well). Anything another type of supernatural ability is capable of, an arcane caster can probably do to some degree. BUT...many of them they cannot do as well.

Give arcane casters the most powerful raw area damage effects in the game, since in so many stories it is wizards who throw lightning and fire, cause earthquakes, summon hordes of undead, and so on and so forth. Whatever a given wizard's school of wizardry is, sorcerer's bloodline is, warlock's pact is, that determines the limited pool of abilities they are really good at.

Give other types of supernatural powers less breadth, and more depth. A wizard can heal wounds, imbue others with potent buffs, commune with extraplanar beings, raise the dead, and so on, but a cleric can do so much more potently, and at lower levels.

A wizard can summon animals or storms, can shapeshift into animals, can replenish the land, grow crops, etc, but a druid can do so much better, and at lower levels.

A wizard can read minds, move objects from afar with telekinesis, scry on other locations, but a psychic character will do so considerably more potently, and at much lower levels. While a wizard might be able to speak with someone in brief spurts with a cantrip like Message out of the gate, a telepathic psychic will be able to communicate primarily with just their thoughts if they so desire. A wizard can move objects around with a Mage Hand cantrip right from the beginning of their career, but a telekinetic is already capable of lifting much heavier weights from a much further distance away right at level 1. A wizard might be able to see around a corner with a probe a couple dozen feet away, but a clairsentient instead sends out a full-blown remote sensor, moving it like an astral projection and sensing through it while turning the senses off in their own body, and being able to travel as far as they wish until they turn it off and return their senses to their own body.

I think psionics in general should be extremely focused, a bit more potent, with less numbers of abilities available to a practitioner, but much more ubiquitous in usage. That is to say, while caster types generally have a limited number of uses of various abilities per day, and can mix up what they can do with great utility, a psychic character has far less abilities, but can use just about everything they know at-will, instead using their resources (power points) to temporarily increase the potency of their limited repertoire of abilities.

I have always thought clerics should probably have some sort of different casting mode than arcane casters too, to be honest. Clerics shouldn't be particularly limited to memorizing/preparing a limited suite of abilities, and having a certain number of uses per day. Instead, divine casters should have fairly limited sphere of power their gods hold sway over, and can keep using them as much as they want, but with a further price to pay the more they use it in a day. After all, they're asking for favors from divinity. Favors like that almost always come with a cost of some sort. The more favors you want, the more it will cost you. But that's a discussion for another thread.

But yeah, I think arcane casters should totally have access to telepathy, mind control, telekinesis, clairsentient abilities, remote viewing, etc. And unlike a psychic character, might even have all of those and more at once! But...the psychic characters can use those abilities in perpetuity, and push them into overdrive for limited periods of time with their reservoir of psychic energy.
 

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