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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7803280" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>While presentation does matter, I fundamentally disagree that it even comes close to telling the whole story. Fourth Edition is a great game, but it fundamentally is a game with a drastically different narrative arc and core story to almost every other edition of Dungeons and Dragons. It recasts the adventurers as epic heroes destined to participate in a grand cosmic struggle, largely eschews dungeon delving, embraces indie design, and has a fundamentally different combat narrative experience.</p><p></p><p>They also originally eschewed many classic elements of the game like gnomes and bards, recast a number of creatures in light of the Dawn War, and embraced new elements that highlighted the narrative arc of the game like Warlords and Dragonborn.</p><p></p><p>It had a glorious attitude that flaunted all this. It was in your face, visceral, and did not give a damn.</p><p></p><p>All of these things are things I love about the game, but served to make it less popular with the core audience. When they attempted to bring things back to the core narrative of Dungeons and Dragons with Essentials they had issues maintaining their existing audience that loved the game that Fourth Edition was.</p><p></p><p>Pathfinder 2 is concerned with continuing and embracing the core narrative of Pathfinder. It passionately embraces Golarion. The only changes to the setting are the result of their Adventure Paths. Monsters pretty much have the same levels as they had CR in Pathfinder. The narrative of combat is much the same and the narrative roles of the classes and races/ancestries largely remain unchanged. Changes to the system were largely done to embrace the stories they wanted to tell with Pathfinder 1.</p><p></p><p>There are definitely challenges, mainly that some fans were used to having a high level of certainty due to elements of character build and the new system highlights the drama of those desperate moments even though character build definitely still does matter. Still, so far they are doing better than I thought they would. Comments from developers on the Paizo board seem thrilled about how the game is doing.</p><p></p><p>Is it setting the world on fire? No. I do not think it like has to though. They were never going to unseat Fifth Edition at what it does best. I would love to discuss this in more depth, but this is probably not the place for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7803280, member: 16586"] While presentation does matter, I fundamentally disagree that it even comes close to telling the whole story. Fourth Edition is a great game, but it fundamentally is a game with a drastically different narrative arc and core story to almost every other edition of Dungeons and Dragons. It recasts the adventurers as epic heroes destined to participate in a grand cosmic struggle, largely eschews dungeon delving, embraces indie design, and has a fundamentally different combat narrative experience. They also originally eschewed many classic elements of the game like gnomes and bards, recast a number of creatures in light of the Dawn War, and embraced new elements that highlighted the narrative arc of the game like Warlords and Dragonborn. It had a glorious attitude that flaunted all this. It was in your face, visceral, and did not give a damn. All of these things are things I love about the game, but served to make it less popular with the core audience. When they attempted to bring things back to the core narrative of Dungeons and Dragons with Essentials they had issues maintaining their existing audience that loved the game that Fourth Edition was. Pathfinder 2 is concerned with continuing and embracing the core narrative of Pathfinder. It passionately embraces Golarion. The only changes to the setting are the result of their Adventure Paths. Monsters pretty much have the same levels as they had CR in Pathfinder. The narrative of combat is much the same and the narrative roles of the classes and races/ancestries largely remain unchanged. Changes to the system were largely done to embrace the stories they wanted to tell with Pathfinder 1. There are definitely challenges, mainly that some fans were used to having a high level of certainty due to elements of character build and the new system highlights the drama of those desperate moments even though character build definitely still does matter. Still, so far they are doing better than I thought they would. Comments from developers on the Paizo board seem thrilled about how the game is doing. Is it setting the world on fire? No. I do not think it like has to though. They were never going to unseat Fifth Edition at what it does best. I would love to discuss this in more depth, but this is probably not the place for it. [/QUOTE]
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