Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8422645" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Here's where you lose me. What are the player desires in this situation? The desire to be a monk and use their subclass abilities? Because that is what we are talking about. This isn't based on something like "the player's want to use this monk as a tank" or something else, the literal desire we are talking about is the desire to play the subclass and use the abilities. </p><p></p><p>Maybe you are right that the math works <em>in theory</em>, but<strong><em> in practice </em></strong>it doesn't actually work. </p><p></p><p>Here, let's just show this at a very very very basic level. You get the subclass at level 3. At Level three, monks have 3 ki per short rest. To use an actual ability costs 2 ki. </p><p></p><p>Fist of Unbroken air is two ki, for a strength save that does 3d10 bludgeoning damage. That sounds very powerful, right? You can do it once per short rest, but that's an average damage of 16.5 damage if the enemy fails the save, and it is the strongest damage for these abilities. Fangs of the Fire Snake has shorter range and 2 ki lets them only deal 1d10 damage, for an example. </p><p></p><p>What else can you do with 2 ki as a base class monk? You can make 4 unarmed attacks. That is 4d4+12 damage, or an average of 22 damage if they hit.</p><p></p><p>So, already, very beginning, I can spend 2 ki in a single action, and do less damage than if I spent that ki using non-subclass features. But it gets worse. Fist of Unbroken Air is an action, but it isn't an attack. So... you can't use your bonus action for anything after doing it. It also doesn't work with monk abilities like Ki-Empowered strikes, or Stunning Strike</p><p></p><p>So, that's 3d10 damage for the entire turn. IF you were using your bonus action with ki for flurry instead, you could still attack with your main weapon, which will likely be a staff for an additional 2d8+6 or 15 damage. </p><p></p><p>So, 2 ki in one turn for 16.5 or 2 ki over two turns for 37 which is 18.5 per turn. </p><p></p><p>So, every single target ability (which is three of your six options) is only useful if the monk, one of the fastest classes in the game, can't close into melee range. In terms of pure damage, they are a downgrade of your abilities. But the other two are AOEs, so does that help? Not really, both of them are close range AOEs, and to do better than the damage of just punching the enemies, you need at least three enemies to be next to the monk. Which is a big risk, especially since... that's it. You don't get a second shot. So, in a single turn of a single combat, you blow all of your subclass abilities. </p><p></p><p>Or, over three turns, you just act as a normal monk. Which is generally getting you better results anyways.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8422645, member: 6801228"] Here's where you lose me. What are the player desires in this situation? The desire to be a monk and use their subclass abilities? Because that is what we are talking about. This isn't based on something like "the player's want to use this monk as a tank" or something else, the literal desire we are talking about is the desire to play the subclass and use the abilities. Maybe you are right that the math works [I]in theory[/I], but[B][I] in practice [/I][/B]it doesn't actually work. Here, let's just show this at a very very very basic level. You get the subclass at level 3. At Level three, monks have 3 ki per short rest. To use an actual ability costs 2 ki. Fist of Unbroken air is two ki, for a strength save that does 3d10 bludgeoning damage. That sounds very powerful, right? You can do it once per short rest, but that's an average damage of 16.5 damage if the enemy fails the save, and it is the strongest damage for these abilities. Fangs of the Fire Snake has shorter range and 2 ki lets them only deal 1d10 damage, for an example. What else can you do with 2 ki as a base class monk? You can make 4 unarmed attacks. That is 4d4+12 damage, or an average of 22 damage if they hit. So, already, very beginning, I can spend 2 ki in a single action, and do less damage than if I spent that ki using non-subclass features. But it gets worse. Fist of Unbroken Air is an action, but it isn't an attack. So... you can't use your bonus action for anything after doing it. It also doesn't work with monk abilities like Ki-Empowered strikes, or Stunning Strike So, that's 3d10 damage for the entire turn. IF you were using your bonus action with ki for flurry instead, you could still attack with your main weapon, which will likely be a staff for an additional 2d8+6 or 15 damage. So, 2 ki in one turn for 16.5 or 2 ki over two turns for 37 which is 18.5 per turn. So, every single target ability (which is three of your six options) is only useful if the monk, one of the fastest classes in the game, can't close into melee range. In terms of pure damage, they are a downgrade of your abilities. But the other two are AOEs, so does that help? Not really, both of them are close range AOEs, and to do better than the damage of just punching the enemies, you need at least three enemies to be next to the monk. Which is a big risk, especially since... that's it. You don't get a second shot. So, in a single turn of a single combat, you blow all of your subclass abilities. Or, over three turns, you just act as a normal monk. Which is generally getting you better results anyways. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Unearthed Arcana: Travelers of the Multiverse
Top