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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8429027" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Okay, thank you very much. Combined with the wiki I have a better understanding of the term, but I can also see why it was incredibly problematic at the time. And there definetly need to be changes I think if they are going to publish a 5e version of Spelljammer. </p><p></p><p>See, if I have my understanding straight now, you go from the planet the setting is based on to Wild Space, then you travel through wildspace until you reach the edge of the Crystal Sphere, and then exit the Crystal Sphere into the Phlogiston. The exact reasons why or how or all that doesn't matter, just the overall placement. </p><p></p><p>Here is the problem I see immediately. You can't publish material for this without changing far too much of the setting you are publishing it for. You can't publish anything that says "if you enter wildspace you need to deal with X" because that will not be universally true. Wildspace is different inside each crystal sphere, you can't leave Krynn and go to Wildspace to see what is on H'Chacha, because that planet is in Abeir-Toril's wild space. This fragments the setting innumerably. Spelljammer doesn't become one setting, with interesting places to go, it becomes 8 or 10 or who knows how many settings, each of which has to be handled independently, because they are the space around each of the individual planets. And if you have an evil space empire that is threatening Abeir-Toril... that vastly changes a lot of the setting in the Forgotten Realms, and it becomes part of the Forgotten Realms. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Now, then, I don't think this is without a solution, and I don't think it is without an already established solution. Because I believe someone said earlier that the new understanding in 5e is that "wild space" is universal. Every Prime is still on the same prime material plane. </p><p></p><p>To me, this solves the multiple setting issue, though it does raise a few others. The biggest one being that again, you can't have a bunch of space empires and people fighting or trading with them without making the people in the other settings seem smaller and less informed. I honestly don't think you can have space travel in a medieval fantasy world without that effect, but there is a way even potentially around that, though it does take us more into this being closer to Star Frontiers instead of Spelljammer. </p><p></p><p>One of the big ideas of the Star Frontier setting was that the planets the various races came from were unusually close, and they made an alliance. A galactic united nations, if you will. Have that setting, which would be in the same prime as the other settings, just like a different nebula, be on a leading edge of a galactic core. Add in some Prime Directive "we don't make ourselves universally known to people who don't have the tech to get up here and contact us" and we could shape it in a way that the settings we know are connected to this place, and the various evils break the rules, but it isn't galactic invasions as much as it is individual slavers. We could play it like the MCU was playing their universe. There is a lot going on out here, far away from the places you know, but occassionally they come to the setting you know, and there is a problem you need to deal with. </p><p></p><p>I may not be explaining it properly, but I could see the shape of it working somewhat. The issue is... this gets rid of crystal spheres and it gets rid of Phlogiston entirely. The only way not to do that would be to set the main setting in a unique and new Crystal Sphere, and then do the things I was talking about, but I think that's the main challenge. You need a unifying place for all the adventures to happen and center around, because you can't splinter it too much without losing anything to make it engaging.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8429027, member: 6801228"] Okay, thank you very much. Combined with the wiki I have a better understanding of the term, but I can also see why it was incredibly problematic at the time. And there definetly need to be changes I think if they are going to publish a 5e version of Spelljammer. See, if I have my understanding straight now, you go from the planet the setting is based on to Wild Space, then you travel through wildspace until you reach the edge of the Crystal Sphere, and then exit the Crystal Sphere into the Phlogiston. The exact reasons why or how or all that doesn't matter, just the overall placement. Here is the problem I see immediately. You can't publish material for this without changing far too much of the setting you are publishing it for. You can't publish anything that says "if you enter wildspace you need to deal with X" because that will not be universally true. Wildspace is different inside each crystal sphere, you can't leave Krynn and go to Wildspace to see what is on H'Chacha, because that planet is in Abeir-Toril's wild space. This fragments the setting innumerably. Spelljammer doesn't become one setting, with interesting places to go, it becomes 8 or 10 or who knows how many settings, each of which has to be handled independently, because they are the space around each of the individual planets. And if you have an evil space empire that is threatening Abeir-Toril... that vastly changes a lot of the setting in the Forgotten Realms, and it becomes part of the Forgotten Realms. Now, then, I don't think this is without a solution, and I don't think it is without an already established solution. Because I believe someone said earlier that the new understanding in 5e is that "wild space" is universal. Every Prime is still on the same prime material plane. To me, this solves the multiple setting issue, though it does raise a few others. The biggest one being that again, you can't have a bunch of space empires and people fighting or trading with them without making the people in the other settings seem smaller and less informed. I honestly don't think you can have space travel in a medieval fantasy world without that effect, but there is a way even potentially around that, though it does take us more into this being closer to Star Frontiers instead of Spelljammer. One of the big ideas of the Star Frontier setting was that the planets the various races came from were unusually close, and they made an alliance. A galactic united nations, if you will. Have that setting, which would be in the same prime as the other settings, just like a different nebula, be on a leading edge of a galactic core. Add in some Prime Directive "we don't make ourselves universally known to people who don't have the tech to get up here and contact us" and we could shape it in a way that the settings we know are connected to this place, and the various evils break the rules, but it isn't galactic invasions as much as it is individual slavers. We could play it like the MCU was playing their universe. There is a lot going on out here, far away from the places you know, but occassionally they come to the setting you know, and there is a problem you need to deal with. I may not be explaining it properly, but I could see the shape of it working somewhat. The issue is... this gets rid of crystal spheres and it gets rid of Phlogiston entirely. The only way not to do that would be to set the main setting in a unique and new Crystal Sphere, and then do the things I was talking about, but I think that's the main challenge. You need a unifying place for all the adventures to happen and center around, because you can't splinter it too much without losing anything to make it engaging. [/QUOTE]
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