Upcoming AAA/AA CRPGs or story-based RPGs (updated 15/04/2025)

[Ruin Explorer]

The fact that you consider a discussion on subjective opinion winnable, is yet another example of why its best to not engage any longer. Have a good one.

I don't think it's "winnable", but I think things like calling an RPG a "shooter" and suggesting it's going to lose money by using The Expanse IP are points of fact (or least reasoned speculation) rather than opinion. Hence I focused on them.

Opinion is "I don't like the look of it". That fine - hence I didn't argue with it - but it's different to the above.

 

[payn]

I don't think it's "winnable", but I think things like calling an RPG a "shooter" and suggesting it's going to lose money by using The Expanse IP are points of fact (or least reasoned speculation) rather than opinion. Hence I focused on them.

Thats not what I said.

Opinion is "I don't like the look of it". That fine - hence I didn't argue with it - but it's different to the above.

Why not talk about why you disagree? Why take all the out of context general video game discussion to turn into a winnable argument? Thats entirely unnecessary.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The Expanse is fairly generic to start off with. It was based on a Traveller campaign after all. It has the same narrative ancestry as Mass Effect, Exodus and even Rogue Trader.

As IPs go, I doubt The Expanse was particularly expensive. And using an existing IP also saves money, since you don't have to employ people like Peter F. Hamilton to help build your universe.

 

[payn]

The Expanse is fairly generic to start off with. It was based on a Traveller Campaign after all. It has the same narrative ancestry as Mass Effect, Exodus and even Rogue Trader.

I guess I dont see Expanse as generic, but a pretty specific style of sci-fi. Im speaking less of generalities and more of world building identity. Mass Effect for example, sure it has space ships and laser pistols and aliens. Nothing too unique there. Though, the world building and feel of all those things make its pretty unique. The storytelling is what puts it all over the top (and why Andromeda failed so badly). To be fair to this Expanse game, I dont have those details so I am making an admittedly first impression.

As IPs go, I doubt The Expanse was particularly expensive. And using an existing IP also saves money, since you don't have to employ people like Peter F. Hamilton to help build your universe.

Good points.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You know what they say: you wait ages for a science fiction first person RPG, then three come along at once.

 

[payn]

You know what they say: you wait ages for a science fiction first person RPG, then three come along at once.

Despite my first impression, I do love these types of games. I do have a favorable impression of Owlcat after Kingmaker CRPG was very well done. This seems like a different beast though.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I guess I dont see Expanse as generic, but a pretty specific style of sci-fi. Im speaking less of generalities and more of world building identity. Mass Effect for example, sure it has space ships and laser pistols and aliens. Nothing too unique there. Though, the world building and feel of all those things make its pretty unique. The storytelling is what puts it all over the top (and why Andromeda failed so badly). To be fair to this Expanse game, I dont have those details so I am making an admittedly first impression.

The Expanse isn't generic, I totally agree, but what makes it distinctive isn't stuff like how individual combat works in that setting (unlike, say, Dune with its shields and so on), which is fairly generic assault rifles and squad combat stuff, or how big the interiors of ships/space stations are, but rather the worldbuilding and tone. If we completely ignored worldbuilding and tone, I think it would be hard to distinguish very large sections of The Expanse novels and TV series (I only read the first two novels, but watched the whole of the show) from most "space opera" in general apart from the lack of aliens, and if we ignore that also as worldbuilding, then a ton of what happens in The Expanse could happen in Mass Effect or Killjoys or whatever.

But the worldbuilding and tone are distinctive - it's basically "Game of Thrones In Spaaaaaaaaaaaaace" (minus incest), with the distant threat of the White Walkers being replaced by the weirdness/threat of the protomolecule, and I don't mean that as a dismissal or something (though half of SA Corey is the guy most likely to finish ASoIaF unless GRRM specifically no-one should, and close friends with GRRM - Daniel Abraham), just to say that a sort of backstabby, clawing, often amoral politics is centered in way even B5 and DS9 never did (esp. as conflicts are often within factions), and there are a lot of conspiracies and evil experiments and warcrimes going on (again, in a way that's rather more extreme than general space opera-y SF). Tonally it's usually pretty dark - the focus is on societal ills, most of the characters have something profoundly wrong with them or missing from them (even if they're good people - perhaps especially so), and so on. It's not a million miles from ME (they're both occupying a space with elements of "military SF" and "space opera" genres), but it's also not the same.

I will say, we don't see in this trailer much of that politics/tone, though there are asides about them, and I expect we'll see later trailers that make that more of a thing. Based on Owlcat's other games, especially Rogue Trader, I think the politics, warcrimes, etc. will probably be pretty important. So I agree that the trailer isn't distinctively The Expanse but I guess my issue is that I don't see anything that disqualifies it from being The Expanse either, which is how I read your comments (perhaps inaccurately). I think whether it feels like The Expanse will mostly be down to the story they tell and the characters they feature.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I do love these types of games. I do have a favorable impression of Owlcat after Kingmaker CRPG was very well done. This seems like a different beast though.

I would note that Kingmaker is probably their weakest game by some margin, so if you liked that, you'll probably like their other stuff more. Wrath of the Righteous is just much better-written and generally smarter and more complex than Kingmaker, and Rogue Trader is incredible in a lot of ways, especially in how well it conveys the 40K setting, which is unparalleled in videogames, I'd suggest (it also has pretty fun companions).

Rogue Trader is a large part of why I'm not particularly worried about the writing in Osiris Reborn, even if it wasn't shown off amazingly in the trailer.

 

[payn]

The Expanse isn't generic, I totally agree, but what makes it distinctive isn't stuff like how individual combat works in that setting (unlike, say, Dune with its shields and so on), which is fairly generic assault rifles and squad combat stuff, or how big the interiors of ships/space stations are, but rather the worldbuilding and tone. If we completely ignored worldbuilding and tone, I think it would be hard to distinguish very large sections of The Expanse novels and TV series (I only read the first two novels, but watched the whole of the show) from most "space opera" in general apart from the lack of aliens, and if we ignore that also as worldbuilding, then a ton of what happens in The Expanse could happen in Mass Effect or Killjoys or whatever.

But the worldbuilding and tone are distinctive - it's basically "Game of Thrones In Spaaaaaaaaaaaaace" (minus incest), with the distant threat of the White Walkers being replaced by the weirdness/threat of the protomolecule, and I don't mean that as a dismissal or something (though half of SA Corey is the guy most likely to finish ASoIaF unless GRRM specifically no-one should, and close friends with GRRM - Daniel Abraham), just to say that a sort of backstabby, clawing, often amoral politics is centered in way even B5 and DS9 never did (esp. as conflicts are often within factions), and there are a lot of conspiracies and evil experiments and warcrimes going on (again, in a way that's rather more extreme than general space opera-y SF). Tonally it's usually pretty dark - the focus is on societal ills, most of the characters have something profoundly wrong with them or missing from them (even if they're good people - perhaps especially so), and so on. It's not a million miles from ME (they're both occupying a space with elements of "military SF" and "space opera" genres), but it's also not the same.

I will say, we don't see in this trailer much of that politics/tone, though there are asides about them, and I expect we'll see later trailers that make that more of a thing. Based on Owlcat's other games, especially Rogue Trader, I think the politics, warcrimes, etc. will probably be pretty important. So I agree that the trailer isn't distinctively The Expanse but I guess my issue is that I don't see anything that disqualifies it from being The Expanse either, which is how I read your comments (perhaps inaccurately). I think whether it feels like The Expanse will mostly be down to the story they tell and the characters they feature.

You are right. I am definitely looking for things that are difficult to convey in a trailer clip. That might end up being a really good call on their part as they wont reveal too much of the storyline as bad trailers often give away.

 

[payn]

I would note that Kingmaker is probably their weakest game by some margin, so if you liked that, you'll probably like their other stuff more. Wrath of the Righteous is just much better-written and generally smarter and more complex than Kingmaker, and Rogue Trader is incredible in a lot of ways, especially in how well it conveys the 40K setting, which is unparalleled in videogames, I'd suggest (it also has pretty fun companions).

Rogue Trader is a large part of why I'm not particularly worried about the writing in Osiris Reborn, even if it wasn't shown off amazingly in the trailer.

I've held off on Wrath as its an AP I skipped int he PF1 era. I wasnt too keen on mythic rules and its storytelling. Though, ill check it out sometime eventually. Good to know about Rogue Trader wasnt on my radar but it is now.