updated cthd prc: balanced?

[target]

I posted this a while ago, but I made a couple of changes to slightly up the power. Let me know what you all think about how well it's balanced. The concept is a warrior monk who has lots of movement tricks, a la Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, or Hero.

Of particular interest, balance-wise, are the good saves in all categories, and the fast movement, which my DM has expressed some concern about.

Disciple of the Wudan

Backstory: See Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.

Requirements:
Alignment: Any Lawful
Base Attack: +7
Skills: Tumble 8 ranks, Jump 8 ranks, Balance 8 ranks
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Evasion

Hit die: d8

BaB: As fighter
Saves: As monk

Level Special abilities
1 Vertical Running, Unarmored Speed +10 ft
2 Roots of the Mountain, Slow Fall +10 ft.
3 Abundant Step
4 Float like a Butterfly, Fast Movement
5 Broken Chains, Slow Fall +10 ft.
6 Step Lightly, Unarmored Speed +10 ft.
7 Slow Fall (unlimited)
8 Walk with Others
9 Crescent Moon, Unarmored Speed +10 ft.
10 Uncertain Location

All of the abilities of the Disciple of the Wudan become inactive if she
is wearing armor heavier than light armor, or if she is medium encumbered
or greater.

Vertical Running: With a running start (at least 10 feet), a Disciple of
the Wudan can run on a surface as steep as vertical. For every 10 feet in
height, she needs 10 feet in a running start (ie., to run up a 30
ft. wall, she needs 30 ft. of running room). She can run any amount of
distance horizontally on the wall, but will fall off of it if she ends her
turn on a vertical (or near vertical) surface. This is an extraordinary
ability.

Unarmored Speed: This increases the Disciple of the Wudan's unarmored
speed.

Slow Fall: See monk's slow fall ability.

Roots of the Mountain: Once per day per every two class levels, the
Disciple of the Wudan may root herself into place. She gains +4 to her
constitution for as long as she stays rooted, for up to 1 round per class
level. When using this ability, she takes a -20 penalty on any
dexterity-based skill checks, but is immune to bull rush and trip
attacks. She may end her rooting as a free action, but cannot move as
long as she stays rooted. This is an extraordinary ability.

(Note that this is very similar to the Mountain tattoo, only not quite as
good.)

Abundant Step: As monk's ability, except that caster level is the Disciple
of the Wudan's class level plus half of her monk levels (rounded down).

Float like a Butterfly: The Disciple of the Wudan may use her slow fall
ability even if she is not near a wall.

Fast Movement: The Disciple of Wudan has learned to move quickly in armor. She can move up to 10 ft. less than her unarmored speed in light armor. (E.g., if she has unarmoured speed of 50 ft., she could move 40 ft. in light armor.)

Broken Chains: The Disciple of Wudan is affected as if by Freedom of
Movement. This is a spell-like ability.

Step Lightly: The Disciple of Wudan may walk on any surface, regardless of
how weak or uncertain. For instance, she can walk on water or a thin
branch. Her footsteps are so light that they do not leave footsteps or
trigger any weight-sensitive effects. However, she cannot walk on air,
clouds, or anything similarly amorphous.

Walk With Others: When using her Abundant Step or Step Lightly abilities,
a Disciple of Wudan may extend this effect to others once per day for a
number of rounds equal to her class level. She may affect a number of
other people equivalent to half her class level (rounded down).

Crescent Moon: Once per day, a Disciple of Wudan may use ethereal jaunt as
a spell-like ability.

Uncertain Location: The Disciple of Wudan has become centered in her
powers of movement. She may use any of her movement abilities twice as
often as she otherwise could, and moves so quickly and unpredictably that
she gains a +4 dodge bonus to her AC (except when flat-footed).

Thanks,
target

 

[Anabstercorian]

DEFINITELY overpowered.

But also quite fixable!

I'd remove the spell like abilities, for starters - no Broken Chains, no Abundant Step, no Walk with Others, and no Crescent Moon. Also, no Fast Movement, and replace Uncertain Location with something less potent.

I think you're trying to make the class be too many things. It needs more focus.

 

[target]

Um... I think we're not on the same page here at all.

Note the requirements for this class. If you were to take it as a single class monk, you'd have to be 10th level. So this class needs to be powerful enough to be worth taking, which means you'd be giving up, let's see...

Spell resistance, quivering palm, empty body, perfect self, ac bonuses, better damage, better flurry of blows, adamantine fists. You need to get something good in return for all that.

I am worried that this class is on the powerful side, but it can't be downgraded the ways that you're suggesting without making it unplayable for a single class monk, the most likely approach to this class.

- target

 

[Anabstercorian]

You're probably right - I tend to over-hack on things I perceive as over powered. I'll think more on it.

 

[wolfpunk]

Hmm just some initial thoughts. In terms of game requirements, this seems like a mostly movement based prestige class, so I would think Run, and possibly Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack should be pre-reqs.

In terms of movie based reqs, I think weapon focus with a martial sword of some kind should be required.

I dont think they should be able to use any of the abilities with armor on. Perhaps the levels in this prestige class stack with a monks armor class bonus.

I am not sure how Roots of the Mountain blends in with the abilities displayed by the characters in either "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" or "Hero"

I feel the same way about Walk with Others, it was never an ability they shared with another person.

I think Step Lightly needs to be amended to say that if the characters end their movement on a surface not able to support their weight, they fall: ie if they end their movement on water they sink, if on a thin tree limb, it bows and drops them, maybe it could be resisted by a balance check??

Maybe they could gain flurry of blows with the sword they have the weapon focus feat with.

I think things like the ability to charge but not limited to a charging in a straight line would be good.

Instead of fast movement, maybe a +10 bonus to jump and later a +10 to tumble checks?

Hope some of this helps, keep working on it

 

[target]

Run is an interesting idea, probably better than endurance. I'm disinclined to require *two* garbage feats, though, so it's one or the other.

Perhaps weapon focus something would be ok, but one of the fun things in the movie is the wide variety of weapons that the various characters used -- and actually, my favorite fight scene was the one with all the different weapons in use in the dojo. So I don't really want to force someone into a sword.

Roots of the Mountain and Walk with Others don't really have that much to do with the movie, I'll admit. Perhaps I should rethink those -- they were put in basically as movement-based things that I thought were kind of cool. Maybe I should jsut say, "Inspired by" instead of "Based on" the movie.

I agree with the change to step lightly. (Though they did stand on bamboo for a darn long time.) It doesn't make sense for someone to be standing on water or whatever -- and what happens if she activates Roots next round? I really like the balance check addendum -- I'll have to think about how to word that.

Finally, the armor thing... if you're a monk, your ac will continue to go up during the next 10 levels, so you can survive not having armor, but you lose that with this prc. If you came in via fighter/rogue, you're *really* screwed without any kind of armor. Since this is supposed to be a fighter/monk movement hybrid, I'm inclined to allow armor without a big penalty, which is why I wanted fast movement in there. Also from a flavor perspective, lots of minor characters in CTHD wore armor, though now that I think about it, none of the major characters did. Hm.

Thanks for the input...

- target