Updated Monster Summoning Lists???

[Olive]

i think one way to limit the list is to only have templated animals and outsiders. thats the way the book tends to do it, and i'm tempted to follow...

things like dragons i'd definitely leave off, except for perhaps clerics of certain gods, and that should be a domain power, and is all home rulesy, so i won't think about it here.

 

[Glyfair]

However my experience with my players is;
a)They'd rather blow it up, or chop it to pieces themselves.
b)They are limited by their alignment, so the choice is not quite as large as it at first seems.

Not much I can do about (a). However, remember they are limited by alignment when just using the lists in the PHB (well, the clerics are, arcane casters have mostly roleplaying restrictions here). The new lists above dramatically increase the number of available creatures to summon.

Also, everything doesn't have to revolve around combat. Being able to summon an elemental fire rat in your enemies headquarters to burn his important documents when needed can sometimes be as useful as summoning a celestial lion to maul the guards. Flexibility in these sort of situations can have a large effect on a game.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[green slime]

Also, everything doesn't have to revolve around combat. Being able to summon an elemental fire rat in your enemies headquarters to burn his important documents when needed can sometimes be as useful as summoning a celestial lion to maul the guards. Flexibility in these sort of situations can have a large effect on a game.

Well, they could do that at the moment, anyway...Assuming the documents are within range for the summoning, assuming you can successfully tell a rat where to find the documents... The templates don't grant great wisdom, and intelligence.

I would have thought the thing to do was to obtain those documents, rather than burn them... but that is just me

 

[Olive]

Also, everything doesn't have to revolve around combat. Being able to summon an elemental fire rat in your enemies headquarters to burn his important documents when needed can sometimes be as useful as summoning a celestial lion to maul the guards. Flexibility in these sort of situations can have a large effect on a game.

but the existing lists already have this sort of flexability... i mean if you use a SM4 to summon the lion, you can summon 1d3 small fire elementals witht he same spell.

Given that the PHB list for SM5 is about 22 creatures, and SM5 has the largest, maybe each list should be limited to that?

 

[Glyfair]

Well, they could do that at the moment, anyway...Assuming the documents are within range for the summoning, assuming you can successfully tell a rat where to find the documents... The templates don't grant great wisdom, and intelligence.

Well, perhaps this was a bad example My point is that that large of a choice of creatures give you a large amount of flexibility in non-combat situations. IMO, non-combat situations are where you want flexibility the most.

Does your target has a fiendish elephant as a companion? Let's scare it off with a celestial mouse. Do you step through a Gate and find yourself in Mythical Egypt? Summon yourself a celestial cat to gain yourself a few friends.

Also, I personally feel that each caster having a "signature creature list" adds to the fun of the game, too. An axiomatic ant swarm attacked the kings ship in port? Our archenemy Milos regulary summons axiomatic ants, it must be him!

Given that the PHB list for SM5 is about 22 creatures, and SM5 has the largest, maybe each list should be limited to that?

But most character's can't or won't summon all 22 creatures on the list. Most good wizards aren't going to use an evil spell to summon evil creatures (whether it's technically possible or not). The opposite may also be true.

Personally, I'd be happy with keeping the standard list and allowing players to swap out creatures they would use to add new ones.

Glyfair of Glamis

 

[Gez]

I had forgot the Dreamfolk in my listing of the CC1&2 summoning tables. I've now added it.


About number of monsters : I think I'll houserule that summon monster lets you summon 10 creatures of the appropriate level. You chose which 10 creatures when you take the spell. If you want other creatures, and you're an arcane caster, just take the spell once again...

Divine casters, however, will find their choice easier given that they are limited by alignment. I may work the 10 monster/level lists for each faith as a DM. Summoning outside of the list would necessitate a special prayer (i.e., the summon monster would be prepared ahead of time, and prepared to summon that particular critter, while with a regular summon monster spell, you chose what you summon when you cast the spell).