[UPDATED] Pathfinder Unchained Contents Spoilers

Pathfinder Unchained is shipping to Paizo's subscribers. Below you'll find a quick look at the table of contents, introducing the five chapters of the book and what's in each. The book seems crammed full of new optional rules and systems. UPDATE: Be sure to scroll down to the comments below this article where a sequence of posts provides large amounts of detail about the book's content!

Unfortunately, I got my copy on the one day of the week where I work until 10 at night.

But I can give you a brief rundown of the table of contents!

Chapter 1 features the unchained versions of the Barbarian, Monk, Rogue, and Summoner.
It also has a section for determining "Fractional Base Bonuses" for multiclassing purposes, and a section for "Staggered Advancement" that lets you increase BAB, Saves, or HP between levels.

Chapter 2 is all about the skills and options. Background Skills, Consolidated Skills, Skill Groups... also expanded rules for Craft and Profession. It also turns out that the Rogue's new "skill tricks" are available to all classes with a feat. The Variant Multiclassing rules are also in this section, but doesn't include options from the Advanced Class Guide.

Chapter 3 has rules for removing alignment, a revised action economy (three simple actions per turn, one between turn action), a system for removing Iterative attacks (which lets you deal an additional hit of damage for every 5 points above their AC you rolled) , rules for Stamina and Combat Tricks, and rules for wounds, diseases, and poison.

Chapter 4 is all about magic. It has a simplified spellcasting system, alterations to spells, new material components that can modify spells, and some extensive magic item tweaks.

DMs can either remove magic items entirely (making the bonuses inherent), have magic items grant a bonus in addition to their normal effect (similar to 4e and 13th Age), or have them scale with level. There's also a system for making new ones that promises to be an "adventure".

Chapter 5 is dedicated to the quick monster creation rules.

I would like to answer more questions, but I really need to get going. Can't wait to get a chance to really read this!

UPDATE: Be sure to scroll down to the comments below this article where a sequence of posts provides large amounts of detail about the book's content!

 

[casterblaster]

Sadly, I think I will.give this book a pass. I was hoping for lots of less fiddly options. It sounds just as/more fiddly than what is already in place.

maybe after it hits the PRD and I can see for myself in more detail.

THANKS though, for the scoop

I agree, I was hoping that a lot of things would be streamlined. I could be completely wrong but it seems as if you would be replacing one complication with a new complication. That's great news for folks who like that sort of stuff though.

 

[Starfox]

Agree on the fiddly bits, but that is as advertized. The class changes are really cool, and the iterative attack rule is... interesting. Sounds like a big nerf tough, but I've not done any math on it. The magic item replacement rules seem a bit too little, too late, but better than nothing. The action system does nothing for me in this introduction, but might be better on an actual read. The alternate spell systems are completely anti for me - IMC I buff lower levels spells, not reduce them.

Overall, it sounds that outside the 4 classes, little from this book will be commonly used. This is nothing like Pathfinder 2.0.

Not decided on whether I'll actually bye the book or just use what gets put on d20pfsrd.com.

 

[ronaldsf]

The one thing I want from this book, the one thing that will make me alt-tab and pre-order a copy right this minute, is an alternate magic item system that gets rid of wealth by level and Pathfinder/3e's Magic item Christmas tree.

I would just add that the book explicitly suggests that you can get rid of WBL by giving characters innate bonuses as if they were 2 levels higher on the chart. In such a system, even utility magic items would not be presumed and magic items are considered exceedingly rare.

 

[JohnLynch]

The one thing I want from this book, the one thing that will make me alt-tab and pre-order a copy right this minute, is an alternate magic item system that gets rid of wealth by level and Pathfinder/3e's Magic item Christmas tree.

You might like my efforts over here then. I'm doing up a write-up on the WBL for it separately and should have it posted in the next week or so. But the advancement table represents a power boost to weapon users up to about level 14 while it represents a significantly smaller power boost for pure casters up to about level 10. Although my recommendation would be to ditch the concept of WBL if using it anyway. It represents all of the "MUST HAVE" math boosts and lets everything else be gravy (although theoretically non-wizards/alchemists could not be given a single magic item to level 14/10 and will be equal to those if not ahead of those who play by the Core Rulebook Advancement Table + WBL chart).

At some point down the road I also hope to work on less radical advancement tables to give room for those who want to play by the WBL and yet still be able to hand out SOME magic items before level 14 Ornot depending on what I read in Pathfinder Unchained.

But I feel like the book has been a victim of its own hype. This book was never going to be a PF 2.0 testbed, and it was pretty clear going in that it would be closer to Unearthed Arcana than anything else.

If anything that's a plus in my book. Pathfinder 1st Edition has only been out for 6 years, I'd love for Paizo to break away from the "a new edition every 3-5 years" model and follow a much longer edition cycle model.

As for me, I'm hearing about a lot of 4th edition-isms in the book, although not quite to the degree I expected (I expected a better soution for removing iterative attacks rather than simply removing the dice rolls but keeping the mechanic). I'll defintiely get the PDF and then decide if I want the physical book or not (the only books I have in a physical format is the Core Rulebook and the Inner Sea World Guide)

 

[Starfox]

Not to be edition warring (I love Pathfinder and don't own 5E), but from the comments here it seems many people hoped Pathfinder Unchained would be the book that brought 5E into Pathfinder. It seems it is not.

This is actually something that is very hard to do. You can smooth the corners of a complex system like Pathfinder (like changing how iterative attacks work), but turning it into 5E is just no possible - so many of the basics of Pathfinder are too complex for that.

My suggestion is, try 5E. I would, if I though it could get traction among my players. I would get it just for reading if I had the ready cash. But knowing myself, I would immediately start hacking 5E to bits and inserting more options, making it more like Pathfinder. So maybe its just as well that I don't. I do have my homebrew for when I don't play Pathfinder.

 

[Starfox]

You might like my efforts over here then.

This looks very nice indeed.

 

[JohnLynch]

it seems many people hoped Pathfinder Unchained would be the book that brought 5E into Pathfinder. It seems it is not.

No. But depending on what you like of 5e, will depend on whether or not Pathfinder Unchained has it. What Pathfinder Unchained (based on previews from this thread and others) does have is:

• Inherent Bonuses: Like from 4th edition.
• Compact Skills Lists: Like from 4th edition and 5th edition
• Legacy Weapons: Like from 3.5e
• Martial Powers: Some sort of mix between 4th edition's version and 5th edition's version.
• Skill Tricks: Like from 4th edition.
• Spell slot advancement similarish to 5th edition.
• Spells no longer scale: Like from 5th edition.
• Easier monster/NPC creation: Like from 4th edition and 5th edition.
• An action economy that allows 3 actions each turn: Sort of like 4th edition.
• Remove iterative attacks: sort of like 4th edition.

Now the key point is, HOW similar to the other D&D editions are they? That's the big question. From what I'm hearing the the action economy isn't very much like 4th edition and the iterative attacks aren't anywhere near what I was hoping with similarities regarding 4th ed (I was hoping for something like +1[W] in place of iterative attacks myself, rather than simply keeping them but removing the attack roll). At first blush the changes to spellslots and spells sounds very much like 5th edition. But once more details are revealed it might not be so 5th edition-ish as it first sounds.

This is actually something that is very hard to do. You can smooth the corners of a complex system like Pathfinder (like changing how iterative attacks work), but turning it into 5E is just no possible - so many of the basics of Pathfinder are too complex for that.

As I've mentioned elsewhere I'm tossing up with converting Pathfinder material to 5th edition or converting the things I really like about 5th edition and 4th edition to Pathfinder (hit dice as healing, inherent bonuses, better balance between classes). I'm not sure what would be easiest at this point.

This looks very nice indeed.

Thanks!

 

[Minicol]

I am not very enthousiasted from reading the thread, as it seems like even more complexity, while I find it already quite bad.
I will still give it a chance when it arrives

 

[exile]

When I play PF, I am usually playing PFS, so I will use just about anything that is legal for that organized play campaign (come on unchained rogue!).

I find it kind of interesting/amusing that a subset of people over on the 5e side of these boards are complaining about the lack of options for making their own campaigns, stories, etc.; and a subset of people here are complaining about PF offering too many of such fiddly bits. Feast or famine I guess.

 

[Thotas]

I find it kind of interesting/amusing that a subset of people over on the 5e side of these boards are complaining about the lack of options for making their own campaigns, stories, etc.; and a subset of people here are complaining about PF offering too many of such fiddly bits. Feast or famine I guess.

It's because Pathfinder is seen as having options to the point of being out of hand,and the folks over at Hasbro want to make sure that doesn't happen with 5e. What's missed on that is, IMHO, source material should be out of hand, to be mined as the GM sees fit for making their own campaigns and stories. I'm very much distinguishing between homebrew campaigns and using Golarion here; if I'm playing in the Paizo brand setting I'd pretty much expect to be allowed to play any standard race or class. But if my GM said "This is taking place in the world of Zhan-Har, and there are no halflings, witches or alchemists here. We use the Unchained version of the Summoner and Barbarian, but the Core version of the Rogue", then I see they've taken that "out of control" material and taken control of it. Which is exactly how it's supposed to work.