Upper Krust, where are you? [Immortal's Handbook]

[Upper_Krust]

Re: Character Wealth by Level (again)

Greetings!

Hello again mate!

On ECLs for divinity: In my opinion, Anubis is a bit closer than UK in determining appropriate ECLs for deities.

I know the ECLs may vary by campaign, but in my campaign (which is very high magic), ECL +16 works better.

You should note, however, that my campaign is higher magic than D&D default, so it's perhaps not a good reference point in evaluating the average.

Okay.

By the way: Won't ODAs and other snazzy things have effect on ECL, UK?

Yes. EDAs are ECL+5 and ODAs (even though they are technically unrateable) are ECL+25.

 

[Knight Otu]

Re: Re: Character Wealth by Level (again)

Yes. EDAs are ECL+5 and ODAs (even though they are technically unrateable) are ECL+25.

Does that mean that the ODAs are the last (detailed) step in divine abilities?

 

[Anubis]

UK, there's something you should know regarding character wealth . . . Um . . . Using the total character level or ECL is a VERY VERY VERY bad idea!

I never thought about it before, but this TOTALLY breaks down at higher levels. A SINGLE Level 115 character with wealth by your formula based on level could rip apart ANYTHING that has been released by WotC so far, even though a Hecatoncheires or a Prismatic Dragon should be able to kill such a character without a second thought.

Ugh . . . Go over to my Saiyans thread and take a look at Vegeta for proof. I gave him wealth as Level 115, and he can rip apart ANYTHING because of it!

 

[Kalanyr]

I think you are rating a lot of the divine abilities way to high. ECL +16-+19 for DR 0 is insane. A single 16th level character can probably rip apart a party of 4 Quasidieties of 1st level without the least bit of trouble.

I made a Divine Rank 1 diety (ECL 20 for Divine Rank 1 ) for a level 37 campaign. And it didn't seem stronger than the other characters, probably weaker if anything.

 

[Anubis]

I think you are rating a lot of the divine abilities way to high. ECL +16-+19 for DR 0 is insane. A single 16th level character can probably rip apart a party of 4 Quasidieties of 1st level without the least bit of trouble.

I made a Divine Rank 1 diety (ECL 20 for Divine Rank 1 ) for a level 37 campaign. And it didn't seem stronger than the other characters, probably weaker if anything.

I think I'll let you deal with this one, UK.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Knight Otu mate!

Does that mean that the ODAs are the last (detailed) step in divine abilities?

I have TDAs and the ZDA; but I am not sure theres a point in actually 'detailing' them. I may mention them - to leave the door open (so to speak) without going into details.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Anubis mate!

UK, there's something you should know regarding character wealth . . . Um . . . Using the total character level or ECL is a VERY VERY VERY bad idea!

On the contrary, surely its the only way!?

I never thought about it before, but this TOTALLY breaks down at higher levels. A SINGLE Level 115 character with wealth by your formula based on level could rip apart ANYTHING that has been released by WotC so far, even though a Hecatoncheires or a Prismatic Dragon should be able to kill such a character without a second thought.

If there are any problems I am sure they are WotC induced.

Ugh . . . Go over to my Saiyans thread and take a look at Vegeta for proof. I gave him wealth as Level 115, and he can rip apart ANYTHING because of it!

Possessions: Vegeta’s Outfit (AC +50 armor, Save +50 resistance, Str +50 enhancement, Con +50 enhancement, “Haste” continuous; 176,200,000 gp cost), Gloves of Mighty Fists +50 (150,000,000 gp cost), Vegeta’s Boots (Dex +80 enhancement, Attack +50 luck, “Expeditious Retreat” continuous; 189,004,000 gp cost), Ring of Universal Elemental Immunity (2,160,000 gp cost), Ring of Protection +50 (50,000,000 gp cost). Total Wealth: 874,503,125 gp.

'Rip apart ANYTHING'...I don't think so. Erect an Anti-magic Field and you could drop him like a bag a' dirt.

I think you also have to ask the question of where did he get those magic items!? He sure as hell didn't create them himself! The 'Outfit' alone costs about 2 million XP and takes over 48 years to create (and thats with the Efficient Item Creation Feat)

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Kalanyr mate!

I think you are rating a lot of the divine abilities way to high. ECL +16-+19 for DR 0 is insane.

Remember they gain NPC wealth with their ECL treated as their level.

A single 16th level character can probably rip apart a party of 4 Quasidieties of 1st level without the least bit of trouble.

Never in a million years.

...unless I was playing the 16th-level character.

I made a Divine Rank 1 diety (ECL 20 for Divine Rank 1 ) for a level 37 campaign. And it didn't seem stronger than the other characters, probably weaker if anything.

A 37th-level character should be akin to a 9th-level Demigod (Divine Rank 1) for use as a PC.

In a one on one confrontation the 37th-level character could easily bypass a number of abilities (DR; SR etc) but that doesn't stop those abilities existing.

 

[Anubis]

On the contrary, surely its the only way!?

That's what I thought, but Vegeta can EASILY drop even a Hecotoncheires or a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon WITH EASE, mainly thanks to the items!

'Rip apart ANYTHING'...I don't think so. Erect an Anti-magic Field and you could drop him like a bag a' dirt.

Many things do not have access to Antimagic Field. That is not meant to be a limiting factor for magical equipment.

I think you also have to ask the question of where did he get those magic items!? He sure as hell didn't create them himself! The 'Outfit' alone costs about 2 million XP and takes over 48 years to create (and thats with the Efficient Item Creation Feat)

Item creation also is not meant to be a limiting factor. Wealth is wealth. It doesn't matter where the item came from, it's well below his wealth, as explained in the ELH> (They say no items over 25% of total wealth, and no more than 3 items worth more than 10% of total wealth. I followed those rules to the letter.) If you have some alternative method for dealing with wealth, I would suggest that you tell us now, because going by the rules, this breaks down VERY easily after Level 40.

 

[Anubis]

Hi Knight Otu mate!



I have TDAs and the ZDA; but I am not sure theres a point in actually 'detailing' them. I may mention them - to leave the door open (so to speak) without going into details.

What are EDAs, ODAs, TDAs, and ZDAs?