Urbis - Should I follow the GSL, or make the setting system-independent?

[Jürgen Hubert]

This is naive, but has anyone with a similar project ever asked WotC what it would take to obtain a specific license for such a work? It probably wouldn't be worth it just for WotC's lawyers to take a look at it, but I have to admit I'm curious.

I'm not aware of any similar work, and I do think this project is fairly unique. After all, usually you can divide setting descriptions into either freely-published "fan sites" or commercial products which can be purchased and downloaded. The former falls under "fan site policies", while the latter falls under the GSL, OGL, or whatever restrictions the company in question might have. But here, the boundary is less clear...

And given that the legal department of WotC is taking so long with the GSL - which presumably has a priority which is a lot higher than answering this issue - I'm not expecting them to come with an answer on this any time soon.

 

[Squizzle]

It's extraordinarily foolish to sign a contract that you cannot yet read.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

It's extraordinarily foolish to sign a contract that you cannot yet read.

I don't actually "sign" anything until I publish the setting professionally - which is still some time away. Still, I need to think how proceed with my work in the most efficient manner - without annoying the fans in the process.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Well, the majority opinion seems to lean towards system-neutral...

I haven't quite decided yet on the issue myself, but maybe thinking about how to remove the blatant D&D-isms wouldn't hurt.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Settings, in and of themselves, often tend to b e system neutral be default in the majority of their work. For example, while Iron Kingdoms DM sourcebook is indeed a 3e book, it has almost no stats. Ptolus, a 3e book, likewise has many many many pages with no stats.

However, system neutral seesm to be equated with well, bland, boring and generic. For all of the love people talk about when discussing such works, in terms of buying.... well Flying Buffallo is not Wizards of the Coast. Grimtooth Traps are not making NEW books. There haven't been new City Books in years. Even when a fairly well known company like Green Ronin made a very well known property, Freeport, into a system neutral sourceobok, they may not have gotten the sales they need to continue in that rotue as there are no systemless books coming from them in '09 and only a handful before that.

If putting this up for commerical work, keep those things in mind.

 

[I'm A Banana]

All that system neutral requires is some verbiage.

All that the GSL requires is....well...a lot more.

Go system neutral, so you can go GSL and in many other directions (OGL, whatever) in the future.

System neutral gives you more freedom, and bumping around verbiage is a very small price to pay.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Settings, in and of themselves, often tend to b e system neutral be default in the majority of their work. For example, while Iron Kingdoms DM sourcebook is indeed a 3e book, it has almost no stats. Ptolus, a 3e book, likewise has many many many pages with no stats.

However, system neutral seesm to be equated with well, bland, boring and generic. For all of the love people talk about when discussing such works, in terms of buying.... well Flying Buffallo is not Wizards of the Coast. Grimtooth Traps are not making NEW books. There haven't been new City Books in years. Even when a fairly well known company like Green Ronin made a very well known property, Freeport, into a system neutral sourceobok, they may not have gotten the sales they need to continue in that rotue as there are no systemless books coming from them in '09 and only a handful before that.

If putting this up for commerical work, keep those things in mind.

Well, creating a system-neutral version of the setting doesn't prevent me from creating versions for various game systems later...

 

[JoeGKushner]

Well, creating a system-neutral version of the setting doesn't prevent me from creating versions for various game systems later...

Doesn't stop Green Ronin either and yet... well, I think they have stopped.

And of course if we're talking anything beyond fan support, well, not every system has a license to begin with. Afterall, despite the easy potential fit for Warhammer and Freeport, there never was a Freeport Warhammer Companion but there was a d20 one.

 

[Knightfall]

Well, the majority opinion seems to lean towards system-neutral...

I haven't quite decided yet on the issue myself, but maybe thinking about how to remove the blatant D&D-isms wouldn't hurt.

Jürgen, this is a really tough question answer. If you want Urbis to make money as a commercial product, then you'll likely need to tie your world to a system.

Personally, I wouldn't use the GSL as it now stands. The risk of losing control over your own work is to great, IMO. You should consider publishing Urbis using something like True20 or the Pathfinder RPG.

Both those systems are likely to have a significant following as time progresses. OSRIC is another option, as well. However, if you are completely against publishing Urbis under the OGL, then you should publish Urbis as a systemless setting.

Do not publish under GSL unless you wish to risk losing control over the world you have built!

 

[Harlekin]

The Urbis Wiki gradually nears a state of, if not completion, then at least comprehensiveness that allows others to use the setting. The regions are getting increasingly detailed. Maps have been added that allow the readers to understand the scope and geographical detail. More and more illustrations and art are being uploaded.

But I have to make a decision in what direction I want to take the setting now.

Urbis has always been centered on D&D assumptions - essentially, I wanted to take the common tropes of D&D and build a setting around them that not only makes sense, but pushes them to their logical conclusions in the form of a magical industrial revolution. This goal has not changed with the arrival of D&D 4E - an edition which I like, and whose assumptions and elements (such as the new races) I have already partially integrated.

Yet I'm not sure whether I should trust the GSL, which seems very restrictive and might interfere with future publishing plans. So now I'm wondering whether I turn the Urbis Wiki - and with it, the "public" development of the setting that is freely downloadable by everyone - away from something that obviously refers to D&D 4E into a more "system-less" setting. That would involve some significant name changes with some aspects of the setting - elements which only appear in D&D would have to be altered to make them more universal. While common fantasy tropes such as vampires, ghouls, etc. could remain, I would, for example, rename "eladrin" into "high elves", "dragonborn" into "dragonkin", alter the color schemes for dragons, and remove references to many of the more obscure creatures of D&D canon.

The downside of this might be the alienation of many D&D fans, who might be annoyed by the alterations and confused by the use of different names for what are essentially the same creatures.

So, what are your thoughts? Should I stick to all the D&D-isms, or remove them and remake the setting into something more universal and distanced from D&D?

I assume if you want to publish it you also want to sell the product and make money of it. In this case I think your best plan is to publish it as a 4th edition setting. While going systems-neutral has its advantages, you will compete with everything else out there, including all the high end productions generated for AD&D and 3.x. On the other hand the number of settings for 4th edition is quite ueberschaubar, and as most of the third party companies shy away from producing for it, it may stay that way for a while.

I also expect that the OGL market will fracture considerably over the next years, so attaching yourself to the OGL may produce additional problems.