Use Magic Device: Sorcerors?

[wayne62682]

For what it's worth, on his website Sean K. Reynolds suggests a few changes to the Sorcerer to increase its worth.. one of which involves adding Diplomacy, Intimidate and UMD as class skills (he also gives Sorcerers a bonus feat like Wizards get and gets rid of the increased casting time for Metamagics).

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/opinions/opinions3p5chap123.html

 

[pawsplay]

I'm inclined to give Sorcerers a bonus feat at 8th and 16th levels, from Spell Penetration (Greater Spell Penetration), Spell Focus (Greater Spell Focus), Persuasive, Negotiator, or Magical Aptitude. Or, if you're using them, heritage feats.

 

[taliesin15]

I don't see it as unbalancing, but I don't see it as particularly thematic either. Sorcerers are instinctual arcane casters, not general magic users, and they can already use a wide range of magic items just by being sorcerers.

'course I guess the simple soln. is to just let sorcerors use devices that are consistent with the spells they already have, which is pretty much like 1.0

 

[Notmousse]

For what it's worth, on his website Sean K. Reynolds suggests a few changes to the Sorcerer to increase its worth.. one of which involves adding Diplomacy, Intimidate and UMD as class skills (he also gives Sorcerers a bonus feat like Wizards get and gets rid of the increased casting time for Metamagics).

http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/opinions/opinions3p5chap123.html

So he 'makes up' for the Sorcerer's spontaneous casting nature by giving negating most of the little hinderances associated with the class? Why would anyone play a wizard if they can be just like a wizard only don't have to worry 'bout a spellbook? Even in a moderate magic campaign a sorcerer can just tuck scrolls away for casting of the utility spells, not needing a UMD check since it's in their spell list already.

 

[Whimsical]

I have seen a house rule where sorcerers gets Use Magic Device & Intimidate as class skills and four skill points per level, but lose the ability to cast scrolls, wands, and staffs like they do now. Instead they can only automatically use spell trigger and spell completion magic items of spells that they know instead of spells that are on their class list. I thought that was cool.

 

[Corsair]

I would say, that's a matter of perception. I, for one, find the sorcerer more interesting than either of these classes (and as a sidenote, more powerful, too). While they are all good at their specific niche and specialization, they are not good for anything else, mostly thanks to a hugely limited spell choice. The lack of pre-defined flavor actually allows much more different characters to be accounted for with the sorcerer class. It's therefore a great core class!

Bye
Thanee

Fighters are generally not good for anything besides fighting, yet they seem to still be hanging on after all these years.

My main complaint against the sorcerer is that it isn't different enough from a wizard (like the way druids and clerics are for instance).

 

[Thanee]

My main complaint against the sorcerer is that it isn't different enough from a wizard (like the way druids and clerics are for instance).

That's the great thing about the huge number of options in D&D these days... you can just pick what you like.

Obviously, different people like different things, and it's not my intention to tell you, that you have to like the sorcerer class. It's my intention to tell you, that there are people out there who do, and that the sorcerer class surely has its place amongst the myriad of base classes.

Bye
Thanee

 

[wayne62682]

So he 'makes up' for the Sorcerer's spontaneous casting nature by giving negating most of the little hinderances associated with the class? Why would anyone play a wizard if they can be just like a wizard only don't have to worry 'bout a spellbook? Even in a moderate magic campaign a sorcerer can just tuck scrolls away for casting of the utility spells, not needing a UMD check since it's in their spell list already.

*shrug* Don't shoot the messenger I take it you also dislike his houserule that Wizards can only pick Item Creation and/or Spell Mastery with their bonus feats, not Metamagics. Personally I think the only difference between Wizards and Sorcerers should be that Sorcerers know slightly fewer spells but can cast them spontaneously, whereas a Wizard has more flexibility but has to memorize them first. Thus you need to choose between a larger repertoire of spells or the ability to cast spontaneously: those who want more flexible characters would pick a Wizard, and those who want to specialize in a certain area would pick a Sorcerer.

My personal houserule would be that the sorcerer gets a bonus Heritage feat at 1st level and their bonus feats must be used only on Heritage and/or Metamagics.

 

[nittanytbone]

Sorcerers are already pretty good at UMD.

1) They're charisma based. A first level sorcerer will have AT LEAST 15 charisma.

2) They have access to skills that grant synergies. Sorcerers (or common PrCs for them) can get access to Decipher Script, Knowledge Arcana, SPellcraft, etc without much trouble. This allows for nice synergy.

3) You don't need to have a great UMD score to use scrolls and wands if you don't care about doing it quickly and reliably. That makes it fine for things like using a wand of Cure Light Wounds after a fight and such. 2 ranks cross class combined with 18 charisma and a synergy should just about do it for the casual UMD user.

If they want to be GREAT at UMD, its a simple matter of becoming a multiclass arcane-trickster type or finding a PrC that grants it as an in-class skill.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think it works fine for the Sorceror to take UMD cross-class. That is good enough for a lot of utility outside-of-combat stuff, as nittanytbone says.

Do we really want the Sorceror to be better at UMD than the Rogue? Or even the Bard? (The Sorceror is likely to have a higher Cha score.)