Use of Crystal Ball

[Cheiromancer]

Or a mirror of mental prowess, actually.

I'm not sure if it is relevant, but I remember reading on these boards that a wand of identify would take 8 hours to use, since that was the casting time of the base spell.

The item pre-requisites to make a crystal ball or mirror of mental prowess list scrying, which takes an hour to cast, not greater scrying which takes a standard action. May I infer, therefore, that it takes an hour to activate such a magic item?

 

[dcollins]

No.

- Wands take the full casting time due their particular "Activation" specification (DMG p. 206).

- Wondrous items do not have the same language, taking only a command word (in this case), which is a standard action (DMG p. 175, 207). The crystal ball has no special rules which alter this situation.

(Probably someone could argue otherwise, based on the crystal ball's "as with the spell scrying" phrase, but I believe more explicit language is required to change the action type.)

 

[Alejandro]

*Boggle*

It's certainly a reasonable interpretation, to allow Crystal Balls to be used with a standard action. It's how Mostin the Metagnostic saves his friends, after all, with his Mirror of Mental Prowess.

But it just feels so wrong!

 

[Thanee]

Well, later you got Greater Scrying anyways, so it's not like adding a complete new ability to scrying.

We have restricted the Crystal Ball we found in our campaign old-fashion-style to three uses per day, not that bad this way!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Cheiromancer]

So these items duplicate the spell greater scrying, but you only need a scrying spell to make them? Something sounds fishy there.

A Helm of Teleportation requires a teleport spell to make; it doesn't allow you to teleport without error- it only gives you what the base enchantment provides. A Horn of Goodness/Evil gives you the benefits of a circle of protection. It requires a circle of protection to make, not just a protection from evil or protection from good. A Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals requires the appropriate summon monster spells to make, and takes a full round to use, just as if you were casting a summon monster spell yourself. Is there any magic item (aside from a Crystal Ball or a Mirror of Mental Prowess) that breaks this rule?

Personally, I think that if a magic item duplicates the effect of a greater scrying, it needs to have greater scrying as a pre-requisite. If all it has is scrying, then it takes the casting time of that spell to use.

Maybe it should take a little more time for Mostin the Metagnostic to save his friends. Or maybe he has a non-standard Mirror.

 

[dcollins]

Is there any magic item (aside from a Crystal Ball or a Mirror of Mental Prowess) that breaks this rule?

Of course, there are many magic items that have an effect significantly different from their precise prerequisites. Also, all items manage to get rid of the need for any verbal, somatic, or material components which the prerequisite spell would have required.

Nonetheless, you pose an interesting challenge -- made a bit more difficult because the vast majority of spells have a casting time of only 1 action. Here are the first 10 Wondrous Items I could find which seem to fit your criteria:

* Bag of Tricks: summons animal (use activated: standard action); prerequisite summon nature's ally (casting time 1 full round).
* Efreeti Bottle: releases efreeti (use activated: standard action); prerequisite summon monster VII (casting time 1 full round).
* Horn of the Tritons: summon sharks (use activated: standard action); prerequisite summon monster V (casting time 1 full round).
* Horn of Valhalla: summons barbarians (use activated: standard action); prerequisite summon monster VI (casting time 1 full round).
* Murlynd's Spoon: effect as create food and water (command word: standard action); prerequisite create food and water (casting time: 10 minutes).
* Orb of Storms: conjure control weather or storm of vengeance (command word: standard action); prerequisites control weather (casting time 10 minutes) and storm of vengeance (casting time 1 full round).
* Robe of Stars: travel to Astral plane (command word: standard action); prerequisite astral projection (casting time 30 minutes).
* Quaal's Feather Token: creates useful item (command word: standard action); prerequisite major creation (casting time 10 minutes).
* Mirror of Mental Prowess: ability to answer questions (command word: standard action); prerequisite commune (casting time 10 minutes).
* Headband of Intellect/Periapt of Wisdom: adds to Intelligence or Wisdom (use-activated); prerequisite commune (casting time 10 minutes) or legend lore (casting time between 10 minutes and 6 weeks).

You'll note that the items which do recreate the prerequiste spells' casting time need to specifically say so, and these are in the minority (e.g., Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments, Pipes of the Sewers, Stone of Controlling Earth Elementals, et. al.)

 

[Cheiromancer]

I would quibble a bit on some of those counter-examples.

The ones based on summoning are activated a bit faster (1 action instead of one full round), but are less flexible; the critter is specified ahead of time. If someone researched a variant of Monster Summoning VI that only summoned barbarians, I could see it having a faster casting time. They don't seem to be obviously more powerful than the base spell.

Mulrynd's spoon is a diminished version of Create Food and Water. It doesn't create food at a distance, it creates food for only 4 people (instead of 3/level), and the food isn't as good ("wet cardboard" as opposed to "simple fare... rather bland.")

Orb of Storms says "access a control weather spell." Would you allow the weather to change instantly (i.e. in 1 round), or manifest over 10 minutes? I would choose the latter option.

Robe of Stars emulates a limited version of plane shift- the user (and no-one else) is translated physically to the Astral Plane. It does not create an astral duplicate, as astral projection does. Plane shift, of course, has a 1 action casting time.

Quaal's Feather token is a legitimate counter-example- it creates living things (even animals or animated objects), and can create permanent life (the oak tree). This is significantly beyond the power of major creation.

Mirror of Mental Prowess is more limited than commune in some ways, better in others (no xp cost). This item appears to be exceptional, however.

Headband of Intellect/Periapt of Wisdom do not replicate their base spells. If fox's cunning and owl's wisdom had been in the PHB, I strongly suspect they would have been the pre-req's.

So Quaal's Feather Token I'll grant; and there is definitely something peculiar about the Mirror of Mental Prowess. Among other things, it prompted my original question. For one thing, what is a clerical spell doing as a pre-requisite for what appears to be a wizard oriented item? I would have substituted legend lore for commune.

Cheers.

 

[LordAO]

Wonderous items don't follow spells exactly, especially with casting times and components. Sometimes the prerequisites are goofy too. A good example is the cloak of charisma, which requires charm monster when eagle's spleandor is clearly the better spell for it (granted eagle's spleandor came out later). No, the crystal ball doesn't require greater scrying, but in some ways greater scrying is better. It allows any of those spells to be cast through the sensor without failure, a crystal ball doesn't. The crystal ball can be enchanted with true seeing, for example, and always works, wheras a scrying would have a % chance to fail. You will also notice that a crystal ball is extremely expensive. Wondrous items aren't spells. They are unique and often have unique effects. They are simply based on spells and spell like effects, nothing more. In the case of those which allow you to cast a certain spell, it would follow all of the normal rules for that spell. The rule on wondrous items is a standard action to activate unless specifically noted otherwise.