Usefulness of a Dragon Disciple

[Gaiden]

I am thinking about making a dragon disciple but I was wondering if it is worth it. Has anyone had any exerience with one before? WHat class combos are good for one?

Feedback appreciated.

 

[nharwell]

Depends on what you mean by "is it worth it". The class, as written, is definitely NOT a good choice for a straight sorceror. I actually altered the class in my game (dropped enlargement at 5th level, dropped the bonus spells, added +1 spell progression level at every odd level) for the sorceror in my campaign. If, on the other hand, you do something like half-orc barbarian 4/sorceror 1, it can be rather scary -- although limited.

 

[Gaiden]

I am not planning on a straight sorcerer. I am wondering if the class is good with any combination. Why is the class so good with the Barb4/Sorc1? I have heard that combining it with the RageMage PrC from one of the first 3e Dragon mags is a killer combo but I am not sure why.

I am trying to make a bunch of smackdown NPC's that don't use the standard froms - i.e. Charging Paladin with a lance or sheild, Wizard with levels of Red Wizard and archmage, etc. Trying to get nonstandard/exotic NPCs that can hold their own vs munchkined PCs that can toast just about anything. (In explanation, I force my PCs to go the munchkin route - because if they don't, THEY DEAD).

 

[Crothian]

It's a very strong combat class. So, many have decided to take the smallest amount of magic to qualify and then go with a better fighting class until they have all the prerequisites. The extra spells the class gives isn't as important as the huge fighting benefits.

 

[Gaiden]

I am just not seeing the combat payoff - you have midrate BAB and a total of +4 to str. You can only use the breath weapon once a day and you don't get any feats from it. Your hit points will never match a warrior's.

I can only see the usefulness for having a small amount of spells like truestrike and shield.

The claw and bite damage doesn't compare to weapons - does it?

 

[Crothian]

Reach is very useful, and depending on how you play it the sage has said that you also get the huge stat increase from going from medium size to large size.

 

[Gaiden]

Because it doesn't say anything about reach or stat increases in the description of the size increase in the actual text of the PrC I had never considered them. What are all of the benefits and penalties for gaining a size increase?

 

[Crothian]

That's why when the Sage said they apply, people thought the class became way too powerful. Here's the table from the SRD. It depends on what size you are to begin with.

Natural AC/
Old Size* New Size Str Dex Con Armor Attack
--------- -------- --- --- --- ----- ------
Fine Diminutive Same -2 Same Same -4
Diminutive Tiny +2 -2 Same Same -2
Tiny Small +4 -2 Same Same -1
Small Medium-size +4 -2 +2 Same -1
Medium-size Large +8 -2 +4 +2 -1
Large Huge +8 -2 +4 +3 -1
Huge Gargantuan +8 Same +4 +4 -2
Gargantuan Colossal +8 Same +4 +5 -4

 

[Gaiden]

So a medium to large size creature getting the size boost is getting a total of +12 str boost (from size and levels) at the cost of a -1 NA penalty and -2 dex.

The creature now has a 10' reach and uses large weapons one handed and huge weapons two handed.

Yes that begins to make the class a bit more powerful - especially if the charater has rage or frenzy.

[edited for spelling errors]

 

[Gaiden]

Really want feedback on the ragemage dragon disciple combo. Heard that Caliban made a smackdown with these two PrC's. What would such a smack down entail?