Useless feats (re: Combat Casting)

[green slime]

Combat casting is , IMO, much weaker than Skill Focus (Concentration), due to CC's limited area of use. SF grants +2 to all uses of Concentration.

Of course, that means that Discipline, from FRCS is even better... +2 to Concentration and +1 to Will saves.

YMMV.

 

[Tsyr]

For the record, I redid toughness to be an extra 1 hit point every level. Still not "uber", but a lot more useful than it used to be.

 

[Al]

Combat Casting is definitely worthwhile, particularly if Skill Focus is restricted to +2.

Put it this way: a 1st level character with maxed Concentration and 14 Con has a Concentration check of +6. He fails to cast his first-level spells on the defensive 45% of the time. With Combat Casting, he only fails 25% of the time. In other words, you roughly halve your chance to fail.

It actually performs fairly well throughout most levels. Consider the chance to fail casting one's top-level spell on the defensive at the following levels. The figure before the slash is the %chance without CC, the figure afterwards is the %chance with CC.
1st: 45/25
2nd: 40/20
3rd: 40/20
4th: 35/15
5th: 35/15
6th: 30/10
7th: 25/5
8th: 20/5 (using optional 1= -10 rule)
9th: 20/5
10th: 15/5
11th: 15/5
12th: 10/5
13th: 10/5
14th: 5/5.
15th+: 5/5
In other words, up to 13th level, you are getting a discernible benefit. Up to around 9th level, that benefit is fairly significant, especially given that the higher-level spells are going to be more significant in terms of game impact. Creating a 1st level caster I'd be more inclined than not to take it (especially if human). Taking it at 3rd will get you some utility. I'd be less inclined to take it at 6th, and would never take it at 9th, by which point most of its utility is spent.

I will agree with Endurance. I have never ever seen this taken by anyone, nor have I given NPCs it. Toughness is of some use for low-level wizards, and Skill Focus can be useful for NPCs, but Endurance is very rarely used indeed. Even career foot soldiers would be better placed taking Toughness, Power Attack/Cleave or Improved Initiative.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

There must have been some kind of errata for casting on the defensive because in my book it says Casting Defensively is a flat DC 15 Concentration check irregardless of spell levels. Given this reality, Combat Casting is a feat of diminishing returns.

Sunder is a good feat. I have taken it. Endurance is a good feat if you have a DM who creates scenarios where it applies.

I have taken Skill Focus with my rogue for Disable Device, and it was very helpful.

Combat casting is a useless feat the way it is currently set up. If it helped when you take damage, then it would be worthwhile to pick up.

 

[Lord Vangarel]

Nice analysis Al kinda proves the point that the higher level you are the less useful the feat is and by 7th level + a new character hasn't really got a good reason to take it.

How about a change that the DC is 10+Spell Level+Opponent's Level so a 1st level wizard likely fighting 1HD opponents will have a DC of 12 to cast that 1st level spell and a 9th level wizard likely fighting 9HD creatures and casting a 5th level spell would have a DC of 24. This would equate to the 1st level character with +2 Con and maxed out Concentration would only fail 30% of the time and the 9th level wizard with +2 Con and maxed Concentration would fail 50% of the time.

With Combat Casting the 1st level wizard fails 5% of the time and the 9th level wizard fails 35% of the time, thus increasing the likehood of the feat being required at higher levels.

 

[arwink]

Re: Re

Endurance is a good feat if you have a DM who creates scenarios where it applies.

Gotta agree there. I ran a campaign based around a war once, where the necessity of moving armies and individual characters around the region meant that forced marching was a common occurance. The players loved their dwarven warriors and barbarian allies that stocked up with endurance. It made the question of "can we get there on time" much easier to answer.

Similar sort of thing occured in a mercenenary campaign, which started with the PC's fleeing cross-country from an advancing army of undead after their unit was decimated. One person failed the first forced march check, and it wasn't pretty.

Strangely, I don't think there many of the feats mentioned so far in this thread that I haven't seen players take. Toughness is usually the first feat any mage player pickes up, and it's rare I've seen a spellcaster without combat casting.

 

[The Forsaken One]

I've just seen 1 whole concentration check in my whole 3 years of gaming life....

 

[F5]

Another thing to consider:

Combat Casting is more useful for clerics than wizards/sorcerers. The cleric is in the thick of melee more often, and has to make more concentration checks. Arcane casters can't keep out of melee all the time, of course, but clerics see considerably more.

 

[arwink]

True, but the cleric has fewer feats to throw around than the wizard, and the pressure is usually on them to take a few item creation feats among their various combat and turning based preferences. For a cleric (or sorcerer, admittedly) the taking of combat casting is a relatively important decition. With the added feats a wizard gets, it has less impact on overall capabilities in the long run.

 

[jmucchiello]

Re: Re

There must have been some kind of errata for casting on the defensive because in my book it says Casting Defensively is a flat DC 15 Concentration check irregardless of spell levels. Given this reality, Combat Casting is a feat of diminishing returns.

Flat 15 is for casting from within an entangle. The line before that is 15+ spell level for casting on the defensive.