Using 4e with a low magic campaign setting?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235935

oops. I didn't realize that my question caused another thread to be forked.

Anyway, here are a few more thoughts about a low magic campaign:
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One problem that I've seen throughout my 20 years as a gamer is that many players identify more with the magic items their characters use rather than the characters themselves. For example, one player, years ago, went on and on about how his wizard had this magic staff that could do all kinds of things. So I asked him "what else makes your character cool?" Oddly enough, he didn't have answer besides "cast spells." Basically, without their magic items, some characters would just be just one-dimensional. Characters should be defined by their actions in an RPG, not their magic items.
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Another thing that I liked about 4e are the rituals. There's something almost Cthulu-esque about having certain magic be performed with rituals. Finding scrolls and books and deciphering them is now fun again. Who knows what you'll find? Perhaps some of the rituals haven't been written down properly and can have unforseen side effects.
Rituals are perfect for a low magic campaign: martial characters can gain access to them and thus gain spell casting abilities. But from what I've read thus far is that most of the low level rituals (like knock) seem subtle, the magic works but it isn't flashy and can be explained away as coincidence.
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I like low magic because it almost forces players to not rely on magic items and it maintains a sense of realism and suspension of belief. One of the worse culprits that violates the suspension and realism is the Bag of Holding. Every mid-level group in 3.5 seems to have one. Even though it is beneficial, it always reminds me of Final Fantasy games where you can have lists of items and gold in your inventory.

Also, in a low magic game, magic becomes more mysterious. Wizards and spellcasters become threatening. I wanna go back to the days of 2nd edition, before magic had been balanced, when people feared spellcasters simply because they did not know what spells they would cast.

I guess that's more of my 2 cents.

But thanks again for everybody's advice.
 

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We ran low magic Conan D&D throughout 3.0 and 3.5. It was a blast. It was easier with 3rd edition stuff.

4e with the Mearls quote, should also be easy to low-magic. Dont' feel like you need to dole out what I playfully call " player-coddling bonuses," because you as the DM are smart enough not to throw epic level monsters at them :) Your main difficulty will be the absolute lack of normal creatures in the monster manual (leaving you glazed-over with epic level stuff you'll never use ;)

You can tone-down "spellcasters" by simply removing one or two at-will utility spells and telling the player to replace them with a non-spellcaster ability. It shouldn't be hard and obviously will not break the game. Hopefully spellcasters too will be sleightly weakened so that players "avoid" them rather than you having to house rule a bunch of stuff.

You can also superficially remove magical items by simply saying that no item is magical until it is +4 or higher and anything less is simply "superior mastercrafted." That worked well for me.

jh
 


You know why every character seems to have a bag of holding? Because despite how realistic it may be or how much suspension of disbelief it causes or whatever, and no matter how Gary Gygax did it, figuring out encumbrance rules for the amount of coins you're carrying isn't fun for players. Figuring out how much gold you can carry by weight is not fun, it's not challenging, it's math class. Everyone in every edition got a bag of holding as soon as they could. They were even common in the Forgotten Realms novels I read, in that non-adventuring nobles would have them.

And if second edition was so low magic, why does the player's handbook have 143 pages (out of 320) devoted to spells? The DMG has 67 pages of magic items.

The fourth edition PHB has 60 pages of spells, give or take, and 33 pages of magic items.

In keep in the borderlands, I count 27 magic items, not counting scrolls and potions, and counting things like "3-8 with +2 swords" as 1. This is just in the keep. There are 23 magical treasures (again not counting potions and scrolls) in the caves of chaos. In addition to that, there are 28 undead wearing amulets of protection from turning which can be taken, and four amulets of protection from good. I count 11 magic items in Keep on the Shadowfell.

Low magic and no reliance on magic items in the older editions indeed. Low magic has only meant one thing: Stingy DMs.

As for characters being defined by their magic items... Excalibur, Golden Fleece, Mjolnir, Stormbringer, Green Destiny, Kusanagi, The Sword of Shannara, The Deathly Hallows. Sting.

I'm not seeing the problem, other than the new rules mean tight-fisted DMs will have players who are even more unhappy, or that magic power is in the hands of the players as well as the DMs, which is all low-magic really means. "No, it's low magic, and magic is super-mysterious... your enemy is a wizard!"
 

I'm not running a regular D&D campaign. High magic conflicts with the "feel" of the world that I want to portray. High magic, like technology, also allow players to override plots really fast (particularly in horror/investigative adventures). Sort of like how the producers of Battlestar Galactica wanted to get rid of advanced technologies like those found in Star Trek. In my case, I don't like coming up with excuses why certain powers don't work or just say, "its magic."
 

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