Using a readied action to bypass conditions

[kerbarian]

Say a melee creature is immobilized (save ends). It looks like, per RAW, the creature could ready an action to charge as soon as it's no longer immobilized* and then, if it saves, get to charge right away. Readying an action lets it take an action that wouldn't otherwise be possible, because it allows the creature to end its turn and then act.

There are some cases where that tactic is moderately useful and others where it completely negates the condition (e.g. the "weakened until the end of its next turn" from Clr 1 Beacon of Hope).

Is there any reason this wouldn't work according to RAW?


* If you want to be extra careful about the trigger being legal, instead of readying for the end of a condition (arguably an event), the creature can ready for when it says "Go!" and then say it as a free action right after its turn ends.

 

[relmskye]

I would argue that rolling saving throws is part of your turn, and according to the rules one can't take immediate actions on their own turn. Also, any self-respecting DM would tell you to stop trying to play sillybuggers.

If you get granted a saving throw by the party cleric on their turn, however, I see no reason why you wouldn't get to take your readied action then. Nor do I see much reason to disallow it. It's not exactly broken or particularly abusive, and even makes a kind of narrative sense, and required specific actions from both you and the cleric.

"When I'm no longer immobilized" is fine as a trigger, but I would disallow "When I say 'Go!'" for failing to be an event to which you may respond as well as being a clear attempt at cheekiness

 

[Fanaelialae]

According to the RAW (PHB pg 291) what you're suggesting is not possible.

Take a look at the text on that page after Immediate Reaction. "[The readied action] takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it."

According to a strict reading of the Readied Action rules, you cannot prepare an action to trigger when immobilize no longer affects you or when you say "go". You could trigger it off the action of an enemy that goes after you do, but if the immobilization is "save ends" you have a 45% chance of wasting your readied action (you could still be immobilized when the triggering event occurs).

Even going by the spirit of the rules, I'd still say that it's clear that a trigger is intended to be an external stimulus. I'd allow a readied action that triggered after the party cleric casts Sacred Flame (to grant you an extra save) but there's still no guarantee that the saving throw will be successful, so the action still might be wasted.

Allowing a readied action to function the way you suggest would devalue conditions on both sides of the screen, which I don't think would benefit the game.

 

[GenghisDon]

I agree with Fanaelialae & relmskye. Though I doubt any of my players would even attempt something so silly as Power Word: GO! on themselves.

Readiing & getting freed by a comrade is a good idea to attempt though.

 

[Regicide]

Say a melee creature is immobilized (save ends). It looks like, per RAW, the creature could ready an action to charge as soon as it's no longer immobilized* and then, if it saves, get to charge right away. Readying an action lets it take an action that wouldn't otherwise be possible, because it allows the creature to end its turn and then act.

Yes, you can do this. Waiting until your able to move (an event) before you charge is pretty much exactly the type of thing that ready an action is for. It's rare that you won't have something better to do with your standard action than to gamble it on a save working, but when you have nothing else you can do, prepare for when you can.

 

[kerbarian]

Take a look at the text on that page after Immediate Reaction. "[The readied action] takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it."

There's a bunch of inconsistent wording about what the trigger can be. The most direct is:

"Choose Trigger: Choose the action that will trigger your readied action."​

There's also the more restrictive line you mention,

"[A readied action] takes place after your enemy completes the action that triggers it."​

as well as the more liberal lines:

"When you ready an action, you prepare to react to a creature's action or an event."​

"move your place in the initiative order to directly before the creature or the event that triggered your readied action."​

I think a "strict reading", as you say, would have to go with the definition in the "Choose Trigger" section, which allows any action (including a free action) as the trigger.

Even if, in your campaign, you can only ready vs. an enemy's action, an immobilized melee guy could still pick an enemy and ready a charge for when that enemy moves or attacks, and the charge will happen before his next turn would have come around.

Allowing a readied action to function the way you suggest would devalue conditions on both sides of the screen, which I don't think would benefit the game.

I agree that it devalues conditions, and I'm considering a house rule to prevent it, but I believe that's what it would have to be: a house rule. That's what I'm trying to confirm here -- that by RAW, this works, whether or not it's a good thing for the game.

 

[bganon]

It's not strictly RAW, but with the Delay action you don't get saves against harmful effects until after your delayed actions occur. I'd rule that Readied actions work the same way. The immobilized creature who readies a charge for when it can move again doesn't get to save until after the charge... which can't happen, because it's immobilized.

 

[Regicide]

It's not strictly RAW, but with the Delay action you don't get saves against harmful effects until after your delayed actions occur. I'd rule that Readied actions work the same way. The immobilized creature who readies a charge for when it can move again doesn't get to save until after the charge... which can't happen, because it's immobilized.

You can't do that. A readied action may never happen. Among other problems, people would use that to avoid having to ever make a save they don't want to take.

 

[kerbarian]

You can't do that. A readied action may never happen. Among other problems, people would use that to avoid having to ever make a save they don't want to take.

Actually, I think that's already possible. Just delay forever, and you never make saves. Of course, you also never get to act. I guess you can look at it as putting all your concentration into resisting whatever on-a-failed-save effect you're afflicted with.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Yes it works.

And "fixing" it will be more trouble than it is worth.

Consider a few standard readied actions.

1. "I ready an action to charge the first enemy I see within my charge range."

2. "I ready an action to use Rain of blows when the warlord says "go.""

3. "I ready an action to use rain of blows after the warlord makes his attack."

All of these are pretty standard readied actions. (And if anyone who doesn't like #2, it can easily be reformulated into #3, with a little more table talk between players). In fact, any rule that does not allow #1 or #3 would be a bad rule since those are both readied actions that should certainly be allowed.

But, here's the catch. Either of those clearly allowable readied actions can be used to bypass certain conditions.

For instance, I am blinded, save ends. I ready an action to charge the first monster I see within charge range. At the end of my turn, I make a save. If I don't make it, I lose my action (unless the cleric, warlord or paladin gives me a save out of turn). If I do make it and I am now able to see an enemy within charge range, the ready goes off.

Likewise, I could ready an action to attack when the warlord says go or when the warlord attacks when I am blinded or slowed, save ends. The save would occur before the end of my turn, so, when the warlord says go (or attacks), there would be at least a 55% chance that I would be able to act, unimpeded by the condition.

Now, does this devalue conditions? Yes and no. Obviously, it is a way to sometimes get around debilitating conditions (blinded, immobilized, and weakened are probably the usual conditions to evade in this way). But it is not without risks. You trade your immediate reaction (which is more significant for some classes than for others), possibly your place in the initiative order, and a guaranteed action at a disadvantage for a good chance (depending upon how you word the ready--in some cases, you could avoid the chance of losing an action, but the specific readies that are under discussion do not accomplish that) of an action without a disadvantage. If you just acted normally, you would be guaranteed a useful (though not necessarily optimal) action--if worst comes to worst, you can second wind or full defense. (You would also have the option to use combat challenge, shield, etc as appropriate). If 45% of the time, you fail the save and get no action at all because your ready doesn't trigger, that is probably fairly balanced with having a suboptimal action that occurs 100% of the time.

Now, these are different readies than "I ready for when I am no longer immobilized"--which is arguably illegal since it doesn't trigger on an action from another character. On the other hand, it is possible to achieve similar effects with unquestionably legal readied actions (when the warlord attacks, for instance, which will always be after when you make your save), so there is not much point in standing on ceremony in this case. That is doubly true because it is easier to tweak the legal readied actions to avoid the risk of losing an action. (For instance, if you ready to attack a foe when you can see him and you fail the save against blindness, your ready doesn't go off. On the other hand, if you readied to attack when the warlord attacks (or says, "now!") your ready will go off whether or not you save, so it is all win).