Using a staff with Use Magic Device skill

[Hypersmurf]

Would the same apply to a Warlock who has a caster level, but no spells on his spell list (so he needs to use UMD). It seems that he would be limited to the level of the staff just like the rogue, but that seems counter to the whole point of giving him UMD as a class skill.

Well, I don't have CA, so I can't check the exact wording of a Warlock's caster level.

But let's say we have a Wizard-10 with cross-class ranks in UMD and a Staff of Healing. If he successfully makes his check to activate the staff's Cure Serious Wounds power, it's as if he had the spell on his class list. So it's just the same as if he were activating a Lightning Bolt - it's a spell on the Wizard list, so he can use his Wizard caster level instead of the staff's caster level - 10 rather than 8.

-Hyp.

 

[3d6]

The exact wording of the warlock's caster level is "A warlock's caster level with his invocations is equal to his warlock level."

 

[juliaromero]

Well, I don't have CA, so I can't check the exact wording of a Warlock's caster level.

But let's say we have a Wizard-10 with cross-class ranks in UMD and a Staff of Healing. If he successfully makes his check to activate the staff's Cure Serious Wounds power, it's as if he had the spell on his class list. So it's just the same as if he were activating a Lightning Bolt - it's a spell on the Wizard list, so he can use his Wizard caster level instead of the staff's caster level - 10 rather than 8.

-Hyp.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? Before you said a rogue would use the staff's caster level. Why is a wizard casting a cleric spell any different?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? Before you said a rogue would use the staff's caster level. Why is a wizard casting a cleric spell any different?

Because a Wizard 10 has a caster level of 10 when casting spells.

A Rogue 10 has a caster level of 0 when casting spells.

 

[3d6]

I think his argument is that because a wizard already has a caster level, and the "use a wand" function of UMD allows you to behaves as though you had the appropriate spell on your class spell list, it works just like the wizard actually having spell X on his class list, so he uses his caster level when activating the staff. A rogue doesn't have a caster level, so just uses the caster level of the item.

 

[juliaromero]

I disagree. I think a wizard has a caster level for wizard spells. A wizard's caster level is equal to a rogue's for casting cleric spells: zero. I don't see any difference between a wizard using UMD to cast a cleric spell and a Rogue doing it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I disagree. I think a wizard has a caster level for wizard spells. A wizard's caster level is equal to a rogue's for casting cleric spells: zero. I don't see any difference between a wizard using UMD to cast a cleric spell and a Rogue doing it.

Because UMD lets you act as if the spell were on your class list.

So, when the Wizard successfully makes his UMD check, it's like Cure Critical Wounds *is* a Wizard spell - for the next couple seconds, anyway. Therefore, he can use his Wizard caster level: 10.

Likewise, when the Rogue successfully makes his UMD check, it's like Cure Critical Wounds *is* a Rogue spell - for the next couple seconds, anyway. Therefore, he can use his Rogue caster level: 0.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree. I think a wizard has a caster level for wizard spells. A wizard's caster level is equal to a rogue's for casting cleric spells: zero. I don't see any difference between a wizard using UMD to cast a cleric spell and a Rogue doing it.

Staffs don't have 'wizard spells', 'cleric spells', 'druid spells', etc.

They don't even have arcane or divine spells.

They only have two types of spells: Spells on the user's class list, and spells not on the user's class list.

With UMD, the spell is a spell on your class list.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The exact wording of the warlock's caster level is "A warlock's caster level with his invocations is equal to his warlock level."

Hmm.

So he doesn't, strictly, have a caster level with spells on his class list.

-Hyp.