Using C&C Saving Throws in 3E

Unless I missed it, in which case I apologize for a duplicate point, no one has mentioned what I think is the clear reason why the 6 save system is lighter (not necessarily better, but lighter) than D&D

It removes the individual tracking of saving throw bonus by class. Yes, there are six categories, but you don't even have to look at your character sheet to know what you need to roll in order to save. People who say it's more complicated are missing this point. It hugely simplifies the system.

That said, I think you could port the C&C saving throw system wholesale into 3E without breaking the balance. You'd need to apply the same "add your level" scheme (just so there's a rule) - you'd need to apply it to the DC on saves for spells. This would up the numbers required, as several people have noted for C&C, but it seems to be by about 2 points IIRC.

It shouldn't unbalance the classes much, since there's not a class that's much better than the others across the board in saves - just better at one kind than others. You'd need to import prime/secondary stats to handle this, and just not apply these to skill checks if you wanted to keep skills exactly as is.

Hmm. It's more complicated than I thought. But still do-able, I think. The 3E rules are very intricately intertwined: it's an elegant system, but hard to modify precisely because it's so elegant. As I said, I don't think it would break the balance, but it would take several adjustments in other places in the rules.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


sinmissing said:
I've seen mention of a C&C SRD in some other posts. Is this a real thing, or only for the playtesters?

I've never heard of it, and I'm pretty up on what's out there in the public domain about C&C. It's probably something for the playtesters - that's before my time. Most of the game is OGC, but the key part (SIEGE engine) is product id. The playtesters signed an NDA, which is non disclosure agreement. I haven't signed it, so I don't know what went on behind that particular closed door.

I think a fansite open license will come out at some point, but I think the Trolls will ask publishers for a license agreement, although they've said they'll be very encouraging of indy efforts.

It's like a three-person company, so I think legal innovation will be very slow to develop. They've got a ton of planned product to get out the door before they turn to that, I think.
 

sinmissing said:
Dragonhelm is the only one who actually found the thread, and responded to it. Thanks. Prestige Classes certainly pose an interesting issue, I'll have to give that some thought.

Glad that was of some help. :)

The rest of you have plently of room to have your slap fights in the number of other threads of C&C vs. 3E. If you were my children, I'd give you a stiff whack on the behind for interrupting the adults. SHAME on you! (insert: finger waggling and furrowed brow)

LOL!

Unfortunately, there seems to be a trend of "edition wars" out there.

The thing is, there are different types of role-players, and likewise, different types of rules systems, each one with its benefits and deficits. Both the d20 and C&C systems have their perks and flaws, and each one will appeal to a different style of role-player.

To each their own. Personally, I enjoy both systems and find value either way. :)

With that being said, let's get back to the topic at hand.


Another thing I thought of are feats that give bonuses to saves, such as Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will, etc. You could apply the bonus to saves still, just by comparing the ability scores. Or, if you wish, you can split the bonuses up between two different saves.
 
Last edited:

Maybe do away with the named feats, and just have a generic Improved Save Feat, granting +1 to Two Saves, or +2 to One Save. So Improved Save named Unshakeable might grant +1 to WIS and CHA saves. (just like grim tales did with Skill Focus)
 

Remove ads

Top