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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5963405" data-attributes="member: 35909">Kingius, as the one who said all the polymorph spells in core were broken EXCEPT the Polymorph spell itself (and I'll expand that to Baleful Polymorph, which I didn't even think of before but is completely in line with the other save or die spells), I'd like you to explain why those other spells are not broken.Alter Self can give you flight for 10x the duration of the fly spell at a lower spell level.&nbsp; And I have never seen anyone claim Fly is a weak spell.&nbsp; How is this not plainly broken?&nbsp; A lower level spell is better than the higher level one.Polymorph Any Object has no limit to how much you can tank the duration factor.&nbsp; So if you just want a &quot;short&quot; (20 minutes is pretty long in D&amp;D time) massive advantage in combat, you can use it to turn basically anything into anything, like a rock into [insert powerful monster w/in the confines of the polymorph rules].&nbsp; Thats just too much.Shapechange...have you seen what you can do w/ Su abilities?!&nbsp; Choker for extra standard actions...&nbsp; Kolyarut for all day enervations.&nbsp; Beholder for its eye rays.&nbsp; Guardinals for lay on hands (with no real cap on daily usage, by RAW; just turn into &quot;new&quot; guardinals).&nbsp; Archons and evil outsiders for at will greater teleport.&nbsp; Just some core examples.&nbsp; All attacks ignoring SR completely.I definitely agree Polymorph is balanced.&nbsp; These spells...not so much.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5963405, member: 35909"] Kingius, as the one who said all the polymorph spells in core were broken EXCEPT the Polymorph spell itself (and I'll expand that to Baleful Polymorph, which I didn't even think of before but is completely in line with the other save or die spells), I'd like you to explain why those other spells are not broken. Alter Self can give you flight for 10x the duration of the fly spell at a lower spell level. And I have never seen anyone claim Fly is a weak spell. How is this not plainly broken? A lower level spell is better than the higher level one. Polymorph Any Object has no limit to how much you can tank the duration factor. So if you just want a "short" (20 minutes is pretty long in D&D time) massive advantage in combat, you can use it to turn basically anything into anything, like a rock into [insert powerful monster w/in the confines of the polymorph rules]. Thats just too much. Shapechange...have you seen what you can do w/ Su abilities?! Choker for extra standard actions... Kolyarut for all day enervations. Beholder for its eye rays. Guardinals for lay on hands (with no real cap on daily usage, by RAW; just turn into "new" guardinals). Archons and evil outsiders for at will greater teleport. Just some core examples. All attacks ignoring SR completely. I definitely agree Polymorph is balanced. These spells...not so much. [/QUOTE]

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