D&D 3E/3.5 v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)

[xanatos]

Yeah and 99% of creatures don't need Turn Resistance either.

But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!

Should be a fairly even match up - of course if you pander to your opponents strengths you deserve to get spanked (if I were a Balor I wouldn't necessarily wade in unprepared against that heavily armed Fighter waving the glowing Battle Axe.

Ah... But this is something totally different... Even goblins could win if they adopted guerilla warfare... The standard combat is around six/eight rounds (counting the initial round of Ranged combat) and is based on the fact that the monster will fight here and there till death. He won't try to escape and he won't surrender (the standard plot is that the monster is a guardian... If the party can make the monster run away, the party has won because they can enter the next room/take the big treasur/???)
A monster that wants to use hit-and-run tactics is better described by raising the difficulty of the encounter

If you travel to another plane then you are the Outsider.

[/QUOTE]
No... You are only non-native. Not all the spells will work against you! (some work only against outsiders) but with the 3.0/3.5 they have reworded many spells so that they target non-native beings.

---Bye

 

[Kavon]

Hiya Kavon matey!

Hey U_K Thanks for the quick reply (I guess..or should I just go to bed now? o.o)

Good luck.

Chalk up another application of my CR system.

Instead why don't you keep the EXP Tables but just let the characters freeform with up to +1 worth of CR instead of 'levelling up'!?

I guess I'm influences by all these video games too much (like, Final Fantasy Tactics and its job points)
Hmm... The player would be able to 'fill up' 1000 XP till the next level, with 0.1 CR costing 100 XP. If they're working on filling an ability up (let's say they go for some bigger ability.. 1+ CR or whatever) and they level up like this.. Let's say the character had 500 XP (at level 1) when it started learning that 1 CR ability.. The character would first spend 500 XP on the ability, 'becomes' level 2, and would need to spend 1000 XP to finish it (since the character would need 2000 XP for its 3rd level, which makes 0.1 CR cost 200 XP).
It rather depends on the individual player I guess. I think some people would enjoy gaining things right as they 'train' for them, while others like to pick things after some gaming. I guess it would be optional which way to do it (either way would be fine with me).

All the various HDs are listed in the Design Parameters for classes (the percentages listed are percentages of 1 point of CR)

Ok. Let's see... 1 HP is (about) 0.03 CR, right?
Hmm... 30 XP per HP instead of throwing dice? (might be going a bit too far if I do this).

Yes.

You have it right.

I amaze myself in my semi-sleeping state

Thats the whole point isn't it.

Yep
I'm starting to get into it now I think (it always helps when I'm trying to do something for myself with things like this).

Should be okay. It will teach your players why not to overspecialise in one area.

Yeah.
I'm wondering where to set the limit on some of the things now though.
Like.. Would it be ok for a player to get more than one dice of HP in one 'level'? More than 1 BAB increase? Etc..
On one side I don't really see a problem, since they pay for what they get.. But on the other side, I think about all the limits set in the standard game, and it makes me wonder if I should restrict it here and there (like, only one Weapon Focus per weapon, stuff like that).
Oh.. What do you think about increasing ability scores this way? Would it be too much? Allow it, but limit it greatly (like the 1 per 4 levels in the normal level progression)?

Hey! Thats what I suggested.

Hehe


*mumbles on..*

Hmm.. Bed time! *drops to the floor*

Edit: Oh! Oh! Almost forgot!
How do you think I should handle character creation with something like this?
300-500 XP to 'buy' racial abilities? How much would the initial class abilities be? 1000 XP or something like that?
Oh, just remembered another thing I wasn't sure about.. Treasure. They'd.. be paying XP for their treasure like this. That thought makes my mind warp right now.. It doesn't sound right

 

[codewarriorpro]

Hi UK,

I've got two questions. What are the CR for the following:

1. 1,000 Orcs (I've just finished reading R.A. Salvatore's "The Thousands Orcs")? I think you rate 1 orc to be 2/3 CR = (2/3 EL) So adding 999 would give you EL 2/3+13=EL 13 right? So a 17th Level Fighter could go out there and expend 25% of his resources , win 87.5% of the time, and gain 5,100 Experience Points.

2. Thanos from Marvel Comics?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!

Well it should be (in terms of Hardness anyway).

Ah... But this is something totally different... Even goblins could win if they adopted guerilla warfare... The standard combat is around six/eight rounds (counting the initial round of Ranged combat) and is based on the fact that the monster will fight here and there till death. He won't try to escape and he won't surrender (the standard plot is that the monster is a guardian... If the party can make the monster run away, the party has won because they can enter the next room/take the big treasur/???)
A monster that wants to use hit-and-run tactics is better described by raising the difficulty of the encounter

I said it was even. I just don't want people coming back at me and biting my @ss with tales of how they defeated a Balor single-handedly when they were 24th-level or somesuch caper.

No... You are only non-native. Not all the spells will work against you! (some work only against outsiders) but with the 3.0/3.5 they have reworded many spells so that they target non-native beings.

How many spells is that exactly?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Hey U_K Thanks for the quick reply (I guess..or should I just go to bed now? o.o)

I guess I'm influences by all these video games too much (like, Final Fantasy Tactics and its job points)

I haven't had the pleasure of that game as yet.

Hmm... The player would be able to 'fill up' 1000 XP till the next level, with 0.1 CR costing 100 XP. If they're working on filling an ability up (let's say they go for some bigger ability.. 1+ CR or whatever) and they level up like this.. Let's say the character had 500 XP (at level 1) when it started learning that 1 CR ability.. The character would first spend 500 XP on the ability, 'becomes' level 2, and would need to spend 1000 XP to finish it (since the character would need 2000 XP for its 3rd level, which makes 0.1 CR cost 200 XP).

Exactly, but I thought that might be a bit too complex and that just keeping the EXP Tables defined

It rather depends on the individual player I guess. I think some people would enjoy gaining things right as they 'train' for them, while others like to pick things after some gaming. I guess it would be optional which way to do it (either way would be fine with me).

Maybe put everything into 'feat size peices'.

Ok. Let's see... 1 HP is (about) 0.03 CR, right?
Hmm... 30 XP per HP instead of throwing dice? (might be going a bit too far if I do this).

Yep.

I amaze myself in my semi-sleeping state

I'm halfway there myself.

Yep
I'm starting to get into it now I think (it always helps when I'm trying to do something for myself with things like this).

Yeah.
I'm wondering where to set the limit on some of the things now though.
Like.. Would it be ok for a player to get more than one dice of HP in one 'level'? More than 1 BAB increase? Etc..
On one side I don't really see a problem, since they pay for what they get.. But on the other side, I think about all the limits set in the standard game, and it makes me wonder if I should restrict it here and there (like, only one Weapon Focus per weapon, stuff like that).
Oh.. What do you think about increasing ability scores this way? Would it be too much? Allow it, but limit it greatly (like the 1 per 4 levels in the normal level progression)?

Let them pick whatever they want. Like I said before, over specialisation in a certain area will eventually catch them out.

*mumbles on..*

Hmm.. Bed time! *drops to the floor*

I should be so lucky.

Edit: Oh! Oh! Almost forgot!
How do you think I should handle character creation with something like this?
300-500 XP to 'buy' racial abilities? How much would the initial class abilities be? 1000 XP or something like that?

Give them 1 CR worth to play with at 1st-level, make sure they take at least d4 hp.

Oh, just remembered another thing I wasn't sure about.. Treasure. They'd.. be paying XP for their treasure like this. That thought makes my mind warp right now.. It doesn't sound right

One PC level of treasure is worth one feat.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi UK,

Hiya mate!

I've got two questions. What are the CR for the following:

1. 1,000 Orcs (I've just finished reading R.A. Salvatore's "The Thousands Orcs")? I think you rate 1 orc to be 2/3 CR = (2/3 EL) So adding 999 would give you EL 2/3+13=EL 13 right? So a 17th Level Fighter could go out there and expend 25% of his resources , win 87.5% of the time, and gain 5,100 Experience Points.

Well I have been going over v4.1 (with Wulfs ideas implemented) and 1000 Orcs would be EL 16; whereas a 17th-level Fighter would be EL 17.

So thats pretty much a 50/50 encounter; tipped slightly in favour of Driz'zt.

Of course it assumes all the Orcs were 1st-level Warriors; which is unlikely(?); though I haven't read that book yet...but I did see Todd Lockwoods original cover art up close and personal at Euro Gencon earlier this year.

2. Thanos from Marvel Comics?

In spirit shall we say.

By the way I picked up the first issue of the new Thanos comic and it looks interesting, though I must say I am still unsure where Starlin is taking the character.

I also picked up the new issues of Thor (#70) and JLA*Avengers (#2) both excellent.

The JLA*Avengers title is simply fantastic (probably the best comic I have ever read in fact); though I was shocked to see Superman capable of lifting/halting Mjolnir and doubly shocked to see Thor knocked out by Superman...the ignominy of it all*.

*albeit accompanied by some classic dialogue.

...though for such an afront Supes does himself get subsequently knocked out by a combined assault from Hercules; She Hulk; Iron Man; Vision and Wonder Man. That'll teach the blaggard.

 

[Kavon]

Hiya mate!

Hey again (ugh..didn't get enough sleep x__x )

I haven't had the pleasure of that game as yet.

Might be worth a try

Exactly, but I thought that might be a bit too complex and that just keeping the EXP Tables defined.

Yeah, I know it will make it more complex, but I think my players wont mind that too much.

Maybe put everything into 'feat size peices'.

Hmm... Yeah, I could do it that way, though that would just make for the same result only slightly less detailed. I like the idea though.

Yep.

Hmm... That was 6 for one feat right?
Do you think it'd be alright if I remove the randomness of dice for HP?
Hmm... Now that I think about it, my players might want to roll dice anyway (they prefer the randomness of 4d6 drop one over the point buy system).

Let them pick whatever they want. Like I said before, over specialisation in a certain area will eventually catch them out.

Alright, sounds good to me.

I should be so lucky.

Well, I hope you had more sleep than me

Give them 1 CR worth to play with at 1st-level, make sure they take at least d4 hp.

Alright. However, if I do that, they would start out a bit weaker than in the normal rules because at level one a character has a full level worth in a class, but they also have their racial abilities (which would be ignored in the actual CR calculations, but in terms of power they are still there).
It would be something like starting at apprentice level (the multiclass at 1st level bit), instead of 1st level.

One PC level of treasure is worth one feat.

Yes, I know. I'm just not sure how to implement it with the system I'm thinking of.
They'd be able to gain more than one level's worth of treasure, but they'd be spending their XP on it. I don't know how I should justify them finding treasure in a dungeon in exchange for their XP (so to speak).

 

[xanatos]

But being undead is computed in the CR... Being of IRON is not!

Well it should be (in terms of Hardness anyway).

Logic and DnD don't mix well... And even if the Body of Iron was computed with Hardness, would you make the colossus pay less for the Hardness just because it's Hardness with a Weakness (Rust Monster) instead of being Hardness without a Weakness (Very High Level Barbarian... Ointed by the Gods...)

---Bye

 

[xanatos]

AC Bonus: +0.1/point
Attack Bonus: +0.1/point
Reach: +/-0.1/ft above/below 5 ft
Space: -0.2/size category above medium
Ability Scores: +/-0.1/point
Speed: +/-0.1/10 ft above/below 30 ft

AC and Attack should be a single line valued +0.2/point (as it's in the MM3.5)
Reach should be +/- 0.5 per 5 feets above/below 5 ft (it's a quantized unit, the feet... DnD use blocks of 5 feets)

I think that perhaps weight allowance should be perhaps +/-0.1 per size category. Though it should be +0.2 without an actual size increase since Larger sizes mean you need larger (and heavier) equipment; generally speaking.

??? If you need a bigger sword, then you are larger... Hercules can't use Huge Swords!

Another small problem: Do you consider Colossal Creatures to be 6x6 (as in standard MM3.5) with a Reach of 6 squares (so probably they should get an extra 0.2 for size over the "linear" (5x5) one + the 6 hexes Reach) or 5x5 with 5 reach?

--- Bye

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

Hey again (ugh..didn't get enough sleep x__x )

Must have missed this post.

Hmm... That was 6 for one feat right?

Yep.

Do you think it'd be alright if I remove the randomness of dice for HP?

I don't know - you are a pioneer here.

Hmm... Now that I think about it, my players might want to roll dice anyway (they prefer the randomness of 4d6 drop one over the point buy system).

Sound like dice people to me.

Alright. However, if I do that, they would start out a bit weaker than in the normal rules because at level one a character has a full level worth in a class, but they also have their racial abilities (which would be ignored in the actual CR calculations, but in terms of power they are still there).
It would be something like starting at apprentice level (the multiclass at 1st level bit), instead of 1st level.

You could still give them the racial traits for free.

Yes, I know. I'm just not sure how to implement it with the system I'm thinking of.

Where theres a will theres a way.

They'd be able to gain more than one level's worth of treasure, but they'd be spending their XP on it. I don't know how I should justify them finding treasure in a dungeon in exchange for their XP (so to speak).

I wouldn't have them 'spend' EXP (they might need that for spellcasting and the like) I would just let them choose the abilities commensurate with their 'level'.