value of NPC equipment?

[raidou]

Hello, everyone!

I'm having trouble getting my head around how to give appropriate amounts of treasure per encounter, when it comes to NPC equipment. Here's an example:

I've got an orcish War2, which would make him a CR1 grunt-type encounter. Since he's not a particularly noteworthy NPC (I expect him to survive... oh, two rounds.) I figure he should have approximately 300 gp in treasure/equipment for a normal monster of his CR.

1.) This is a correct approach, right? The "value of NPC equipment" table in the DMG indicates that a level 2 NPC gets a nice 2000gp paycheck to start with. Even if I assume that a War2 is actually equal to a level 1 "regular" class, he'd still get 900 gp worth of stuff, based on that particular table. Since my PC's will likely slaughter these guys in fairly large quantities, that much treasure per orc seems a bit... excessive.

2.) so if I assume that 300gp is "about right" for one orc's worth of loot, my other question deals with outfitting him. A Chain Shirt has a market value of 100gp, but a resale value of 50gp. Which do I consider, when deducting from the base 300gp? Market value means less actual treasure for the PC's, and a shorter shopping spree for my poor orc. But again, I don't want to overdo the amount of loot I'm handing out in these fairly unimportant encounters.

Normally I eyeball this sort of thing, hand out whatever I feel works at the time, and proceed with the game, but I'd like to get in the habit of actually using the guidelines and formulas... if only for my own education on how they work.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

-eric

 

[el Voz]

When I do what you are saying I impose the same shopping rules on me that I impose on the PCs.

But I do not do that as a rule. I look at what I have and out fit him in what I feel he would have come across. Therefore, if that war2 does not have access to a store I would outfit him in hides and old used PC type armor and weapons. I than apply the apprioate plenalties (i.e. rusted broken chain shirt, -1 or 2 ac modifier)

This way I do not get into the details of trying to peg an NPC into a monetary box.

 

[Storm Raven]

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Remember, the wealth that an NPC has does not have to be concentrated in easy to transport materials useful for adventuring. Sure, that orc probably has a suit of chain mail, and a large steel shield and a couple weapons, all of which occupy a fair amount of the value of what he owns.

But, he might have some of his wealth invested in a light warhorse, and use that in battle, making it likely that the horse will be killed in the battle.

He might own some bulk goods, or scattered livestock, or a house (or shack), and even some slaves. All of those things would be difficult to move and transform into cash by the adventurers. Remember, most people don't wrap up the vast majority of their wealth into a couple of fine crafted weapons and some gems. They own useful items for everyday life, many of which are difficult to move around.

 

[Ywain]

If a L2 Warrior is supposed to have 900gp worth of equipment and a CR1 encounter is supposed to make 300gp worth of treasure available to the PCs, then you can divide it up how you want between these lines.

I think that the DMG suggests that you count goods as equal to their "resale" value when calculating treasure, but "market" value when calculating equipment. I could be mistaken, though.

So 900gp worth of equipment could include:

315gp Masterwork Longsword
150gp Chainmail
20gp Large Steel Shield
100gp Two potions of Cure Light Wounds
300gp Potion of Bull's Strength

Total: 885gp.

If he drinks the potion of Bull's Strength in order to fight the PCs, that leaves:

Total: 585gp

If the PCs kept the potions and sold the rest off for cash, they would get:

100gp (potions) + 242gp 5 sp.
Total: 342gp 5sp.

So that's pretty close to proper amount of treasure for a CR1. If the PCs have a long, tough adventure in front of them they might just leave the heavy stuff anyway. Or if the fighter want's a masterwork longsword he might just claim it. Then again, the warrior might have consumed one of the cure potions before he was slain.

If you really want to make sure that the PCs don't get much:

150gp Chainmail
20gp Large Steel Sheild
15gp Longsword
750gp Potion of Waterbreathing

Total: 935gp

The warrior consumes the potion and lies in wait in the river. When they wade through he grapples someone and pulls them into the deep water, trying to drown them (particularly effective against armored fighters who can't swim very well anyway).

Might be a tough encounter, might not be. Depends on how the surprise round goes. If they keep the equipment it is worth 185gp, if they sell it it is worth 92gp. Not a great haul.

So you follow one with the other and you will be averaging about 217gp or 263gp. For each CR1 encounter. At the climax of the adventure you just toss in an extra 50gp to the hoard and it will all even out.


Does that help?

 

[raidou]

appropriate treasure

Thanks for these ideas. Placing a treasure range between the low-end (300gp) and the high end (900gp) sounds very appealing for these sort of monsters.

I'll have to keep looking for the "market value" vs. "resale value" rules for treasure. I swear I've hopped between the NPC section and the treasure section of the DMG a dozen times and just keep missing it. but using a range helps to ease that problem anyway.

Basically, I'm planning on running the Forge of Fury module with eight players (all with LVL 3 characters), and I want to toughen up the existing monsters rather than just drop more of them into the adventure. All without going overboard (or skimping) on the treasure given out. Combat takes a LOOONG time with eight players as it is.

thanks again.

-eric

 

[BluWolf]

I tend to give "filler" encounters "filler" type equipment and treasure.

In otherwords, I don't give the group of goblins that waylaid the party out in the wild 300GP each worth of treasure.

I give them gear I feel is appropriate for their living conditions.

So most combat my PCs go through results in little financial reward. Maybe some replacement weapons or ammo. Some supplies but that is about it.

I make up for it by making the key combats a little richer.

Beating up the evil guys minions is nto a profitable business. Beaitng up the evil guy himself however, can be.

 

[raidou]

BluWolf:

That's pretty much my line of thinking. I've got 4 orc War2's placed guarding a hallway, with no reason whatsoever to have bulging sacks of coins hanging from their belts.

But to add that little "extra punch" against a tactically sound party of eight... a masterwork greataxe or a potion of healing tucked into an orcish boot really helps. Once I've got the equipment values figured out, it becomes much easier to get an idea of how much actual coinage this particular red-shirt orc gets paid to stand in a hallway.

BTW... Masterwork spiked gauntlets. +150 gold piece increase (for armor) or +300 gold piece increase (as a weapon)?



-eric

 

[CRGreathouse]

Masterwork spiked gauntlets. +150 gold piece increase (for armor) or +300 gold piece increase (as a weapon)?

+300.

 

[AuraSeer]

For any item, the masterwork cost depends on the bonus you get from it. If you want +1 to hit, you pay 300 gp. If you want to reduce the armor check penalty, you pay 150 gp. If both (for a spiked shield or similar), you pay 450 gp.

A spiked gauntlet is a weapon, and has no armor check penalty. So the masterwork quality costs 300 gp.

 

[Lord Ben]

Remember that the NPC's in the monster manual are all created using a base 10 on the stat and then adding racial mods. As far as I know they're also balanced based on the "average" stat listings of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 for PC's. So if you have higher powered PC's then you should have higher powered NPC's as well. I always assign 2 14's, 2 12's and 2 10's when doing NPC stats for my Orc warriors or whatever. Instead of giving them potions of bulls str give them

18 str
14 dex
12 con
8 int
10 wis
8 cha

For a high-powered PC in the tough campaign world the NPC's deserve some breaks too.