Vampire Help: Create Spawn allows for unlimited # of minions??

[Belzbet]

I am sure this has come up before but... The way the rule is written for the vampire's create spawn abilites is that it can have a number of spawns equal to double its HD.... However it then says that a vampires minions can create their own spawns so that the "master vampire" can control many "lesser vampires". Now it does not say that there is a limit to the number of second-hand (third-hand, etc, etc) spoawns a vamp. can have (also weirdly it does not give a MAX HDfor a creature that a vampire can turn into a spawn, so a 20HD vamp. can have a 40HD spawn who has a 80HD spawn who has a 160HD spawn. etc, etc. although how that vamp. is going to kill the 160HD spawn is another story, of course I am just saying theoretically; and with "Ghostwalk" montrous vampire template this can get real crazy). So, does that mean a vamp. can have an unlimted number of minions? (I am sure they wrote this abilites, if I am reading it right, with the thought of some dracula like progenitor of the vamps. that all vampires are somehow a minion of).

Example: a 13HD vamp can have two 13HD minions... those new 13HD spawns can both have two 13 HD minions (so together the new spawns can have 4 minions now the master vamp has 6 minons)... we can do this indefinitely... Am I missing something?

ALSO: how do you actual drive a wooden stake through the heart of a vamp?? with the sunder rules? do you have to grapple it, pin it and then declare you are driving a stake through its heart???

 

[Visigani]

Actually, you're describing the plotline to "Lost Boys".... and I don't see any reason why this sort of thing can't work or should be discouraged. Even if it's a player. Just spawn untold legions of vampire hunters to come and wreck their day.

Remember, even if they can spawn an army of vampires.... you can always spawn a nation of vampire hunters. =)

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Hm... Yup, the way I'm reading this, sounds like you've got it right.

Untold minions.

However, If I were your DM, I'd insist you need an obnoxious, bureaucratic chain of communication and command to make it work, requiring every minion to receive confirmation from the immediate superior to obey the command of anyone above the chain of command. NO "Just listen to whatever this other guy says from now on" commands permitted. But that's just me.

 

[Sekhmet]

Dracula (in this case, Vampire 1) is a 10HD Vampire.
He drains two 10HD Humans, who become enslaved Vampires (we'll call them Fred and Jones).

Dracula has enslaved Fred and Jones, and orders them out to spawn two more 10HD vampires each. Fred and Jones do that, and name them Harry, Barry, Jerry, and Larry.

Dracula has control over Fred and Jones, who have control over Harry, Barry, Jerry, and Larry.
Dracula does not have control over Harry, Barry, Jarry, and Larry directly, and so they will not follow his orders. However, he can order Fred and Jones to order their underlings for him.


As far as the stake goes, I'd say any prone/pinned/helpless vampire is eligigle to be hit with a touch attack to drive a stake through his heart.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

ALSO: how do you actual drive a wooden stake through the heart of a vamp?? with the sunder rules? do you have to grapple it, pin it and then declare you are driving a stake through its heart???

Maybe flank it with a small garlic clove in the hands of each member of the party, until it's helpless? or have each hold a mirror, or holy symbol. Vampires have a terrible, totally exploitable flaw.

 

[Sekhmet]

Maybe flank it with a small garlic clove in the hands of each member of the party, until it's helpless? or have each hold a mirror, or holy symbol. Vampires have a terrible, totally exploitable flaw.

If you force a Vampire into the radius of garlic, holy symbols, water, etc... without allowing a place for it to run to (suppose you have him in a corner with no way out), he'll either violently attempt to rush through your square (even though he could not otherwise), or Gaseous Form or Alter Self to get away.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

If you force a Vampire into the radius of garlic, holy symbols, water, etc... without allowing a place for it to run to (suppose you have him in a corner with no way out), he'll either violently attempt to rush through your square (even though he could not otherwise), or Gaseous Form or Alter Self to get away.

Ah, gotcha. Flee, not helpless. Still, a significant flaw.

 

[Belzbet]

I want to thank everyone for the replies!!