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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Catulle" data-source="post: 804764" data-attributes="member: 9942">Hello all,I'll weigh in with an 'as I see it' on this one; bear in mind I'm willing to have my mind changed, as ever.There's not really such a thing as a 'turn' in vampire - sure if you win initiative, you get your first action off before anybody else but you can always delay that action, or use it to dodge with.You'd 'only' need 2 celerity to get 3 dodges in the round (one per mortal) to pretty good effect, given the dodge system (it's like soak pre-soak where if you win, you take nothing); with 3 dots, the vampire's extra action will become very telling (mortals can't soak lethal damage at all). Still, it's pricey in blood terms at a point a round; the best bet against firearms is the conventional one - take cover!Got it in one; however, if the vampire doesn't take aggressive action, it's a cheap way of buying some time to get away (though against three people, you'd need 3 successes to affact them all). Resisting should only occur to those with an idea of precisely what's happening (plus, it's expensive at 1 willpower per turn). Hunters might qualify, but that's a maybe - hunters who get exposed to vampiric powers regularly don't tend to survive too long.Absolutely. See Celerity 3, above. Fortitude, note, will skew the dynamic quite a lot too, and if they're using the automatic fire option, that leaves our mortals empty after a single round of gunfire... and reloading takes a full turn. I'll do some math in a moment.Hence the idea of the Masquerade... if a vampire's facing down 3 guys with submachineguns who know what he is he's done  something very, very wrong.The Protean Earth Meld trick will only work on earth, not asphalt, not astroturf.As Shalimar covered it, generation can (and does) affect this. Bear in mind the effect of Potency of the Blood on Generation, too. Also bear in mind that even a 13th generation neonate can raise his stamina as high as 10 provided he keeps spending blood on it every round (once he stops, it drops to 6 for the rest of the scene after 3 more rounds). Armour, of course, stacks on top...Some moreso than others, of courseThere's a world of difference between 'humans with guns' and 'a gang of humans with military-grade weaponry'. Simply put, people don't tend to own, use or carry submachineguns. A handgun is by far the most common firearm your characters should be encountering. That base-4 damage isn't so threatening to the Kindred as it is to the Kine (it's about equivalent to Maxwell punching somebody, in fact) save for the appealing factor of range. Also, there's a real reluctance, even in criminal circles, to be letting off that kind of firepower anywhere it'll draw too much attention, and automatic weapons always seem to attract too much attention; one reason the huters' most common modus operandi has to be investigation - trace the vampire back to its lair, scope the security, then do anything foolish during the day. Probably involving fire or sunlight.Other opinions?Regards,Barry</blockquote>

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