Vampires......Template, Talent Trees, or Feats?

[cybernetic]

Just trying to get some opinions on how fellow d20 gamers feel about ideas on vampires...

Do you think vampires are fine as a simple template as depicted in the d20 Modern book (kinda bland considering it is basically the same cookie cutter vampire from 3rd Edition DnD..not to mention 2nd edition as well...)?

Would creating talent trees for the basic classes, that only vampires can select, be a good idea? Maybe a vampire talent tree or two for each basic class? Or create 6 basic classes just for vampire...like strong vampire, fast vampire, tough vampire, etc...?

Or would it be a good idea to just have vampiric powers as special feats that only a vampire can purchase?


Post your comments on any of these ideas...suggestions..criticism..anything...even combine them for new ideas....

post away!

 

[jaerdaph]

Just trying to get some opinions on how fellow d20 gamers feel about ideas on vampires...

Do you think vampires are fine as a simple template as depicted in the d20 Modern book (kinda bland considering it is basically the same cookie cutter vampire from 3rd Edition DnD..not to mention 2nd edition as well...)?

Would creating talent trees for the basic classes, that only vampires can select, be a good idea? Maybe a vampire talent tree or two for each basic class? Or create 6 basic classes just for vampire...like strong vampire, fast vampire, tough vampire, etc...?

Or would it be a good idea to just have vampiric powers as special feats that only a vampire can purchase?


Post your comments on any of these ideas...suggestions..criticism..anything...even combine them for new ideas....

post away!

Check out Lords of the Night: Vampires* by Bottled Imp Games. They have reworked each of the basic D&D classes as "black" classes - e.g. black bards. Something similar could probably be done for the modern basic classes, including new vampire-only talent trees. Probably no Tough vampires though - the undead don't have a Constitution score after all.

Vampire-only feats is another good idea, but many of the vampire powers make better special qualities. Here's how I would do it: As vampires "age", they would gain more special qualities. A fledgling vampire would have all the weaknesses and a handful of the special powers on the vampire template, whereas an ancient vampire would have all the powers of the vampire template and then some (new powers), plus more immunity or tolerance to the weaknesses from the original template. (See d20 Ravenloft 3e for vampire age categories. LotN: Vampires has an age category system as well).

* This is an EXCELLENT source book. I highly recommend it. I'm already playing with some ideas from it to introduce into a Modern campaign.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

You could also build a vampire class following the guidelines presented in Savage Species -- it wouldn't be a very extensive class (maybe only 4 or five levels) but that might represent the character learning use his powers, etc.

-rg

 

[Werther von G]

Funny you should mention this.

One of the things I'd been working on was a "NightLife" style setting for d20Modern. The solution I'll be using will be to set "vampire hero" as a basic class, with three Talent trees:

• Prince of Darkness (various charm and mesmerism tricks)
• Music of the Night (animal control, shapeshifting, mistform)
• Monstrous Power (superhuman speed and strength)

I haven't perfected the implementation yet, but that's the intent. Might end up submitting it to d20 weekly

 

[Mordane76]

Re: Funny you should mention this.

One of the things I'd been working on was a "NightLife" style setting for d20Modern. The solution I'll be using will be to set "vampire hero" as a basic class, with three Talent trees:

• Prince of Darkness (various charm and mesmerism tricks)
• Music of the Night (animal control, shapeshifting, mistform)
• Monstrous Power (superhuman speed and strength)

I haven't perfected the implementation yet, but that's the intent. Might end up submitting it to d20 weekly

Dude! This sounds wicked! I really like this premise a lot from they way you lay out your basic idea. I'm just wondering, how do you intend to balance a 10-level Basic Class with powers in Talent trees that will more than likely be more powerful than those of a standard basic class? Had you thought about any "Vampire Hero" AdC?

 

[Werther von G]

Re: Re: Funny you should mention this.

I'm just wondering, how do you intend to balance a 10-level Basic Class with powers in Talent trees that will more than likely be more powerful than those of a standard basic class? Had you thought about any "Vampire Hero" AdC?

On balance: my thought on that was that Vampire Hero would have few class skills or skill points and no Wealth Bonus. If you're making yourself a better vampire, you're not concentrating on more "human" things. To get those, you'll need to take levels in the other Basic Classes -- a character who only has Vampire Hero class levels will be a bestial thing, fit only as an adversary.

Other nods to balance include the "unliving" quality, which has fewer outright immunities than "undead" might, and keeping the supernatural abilities in line with a d20 Modern sensibility.

AdC: Not yet. Any ideas?

 

[digitaldark]

vampires you say...

I went the vampire as basic classes route for my own d20M setting...we have vampiric equivelants of all six basic classes actually...Strong Vampire, Fast Vampire, Tough Vampire, etc..

check out my other thread..
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48441

 

[Mordane76]

Just reading digitaldark's synopsis of Dark Revelations makes me think you and Werther von G should be working together...


Both of your ideas scream cool at me, especially as an old WoD Storyteller and player. Personally, I think feats and skills are best way to do vampires as viable, dynamic creatures, and therefore class levels in D&D, as well as age-categories as templates are the way to go.

To truly invoke dynamic creatures, I think all three options (templates, talents, and feats) need to be blended together properly to get the right effect. Else, vampires just come off as simply blase creatures we've all seen before, over and over again... and I think this monster contains within it a certain potential for something much better.

 

[Doppleganger]

Hello!! I'm just now beginning a d20M game with vampire PCs (using the "real world" of 2003 with vampires as the only fantasy element). I would like to second jeardaph's recommendation of "Lords of the Night: Vampires". This is one heck of a fantastic book, the authors have thought of every last vampiric detail and put tons of ideas into simplistic rules. You can apply a vampire template of any power level (vampire age) to fit your needs, and plop them ontop of Basic/Advanced classes. The vampires are laid out with variable special abilities, removable weaknesses, pseudo-feats (though not feats), sub-race vampires, ages, skills, etc, etc, etc. It allows a way to play Good aligned vampires for a price, and the rules repercussions pertaining to how good/evil a vampire acts seems to enhance roleplaying possibilies. Anyway, I don't think I could possibly cover the scope of what this supplement book covers here, but just know that it fits seamlessly with d20M. Skim through it at your FLGS, you'll be hooked (that's what happened to me!).