Vanguard:SOH

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I was browsing the Vanguard website and came across "At this point, we know of no other MMOG that offers the degree of customization that Vanguard does. "

So, should we assume they have or have not heard of City of Heroes?

I played CoH, and would say that while it was definitely very customizeable, I think Vanguard has a reasonable claim in that in addition to all the eye-candy, fluff sorts of customization (eg, customizeable tack for your horses), there is a lot of customization that will affect gameplay for a particular character in non-trivial ways. Granted, I stopped with CoH before villains, but at least for the first bit the variance between members of the same archetype was pretty minimal. They definitely deserve kudos for their powers system though.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

If you're looking for a game that you can jump in and out of when you have time, and want to be able to feel like you've gotten something done while playing 45 minutes or 90, and that's it, I would recommend CoX or WoW or even the redesigned EQ1 before I'd recommend Vanguard.

At lower levels, there certainly seems to be a lot of content that can be cranked out by small groups in relatively short periods of time. Won't know about the higher levels for a while. In a couple hours play the other day, I picked up a dozen little quests that could easily be finished in 90 minutes.

At high levels, especially for those that felt the need to be competitive in terms of gear and accomplishments, WoW was as bad a grind (and in many instances worse) than anything else I've played. I don't think anything I've seen can touch CoX though for 'in and out' gamers, but I think the genre lends itself to that better than others. DDO is pretty close at the lower levels, though.

But the nice thing about any of these is if your mindset is such that you don't really care what other people are doing, there are ways to have fun without grinding. I made it to max in EQ2, and I only ever went on one or two raids (which I don't like), and never felt like I was grinding or that I needed to 'keep up' with other people. If you've got (or make) a couple friends that want the same things out the game that you do, any of them will suit.

 

[borc killer]

I was browsing the Vanguard website and came across "At this point, we know of no other MMOG that offers the degree of customization that Vanguard does. "

So, should we assume they have or have not heard of City of Heroes?

I think it also depends on what the definition is "IS is" hehe.

If you just single out the customization at the character creation screen then I would say CoH is about equal. But when you take into account all the in game customization then Vanguard is above CoH by a great deal. It is kind of interesting because Sigil never really says exactly WHAT the definition of ‘customization’ is so there is room for argument.

 

[borc killer]

I want you to come back in six months and confirm that the game worked out for you this way. .

I'll let you know

If you're looking for a game that you can jump in and out of when you have time, and want to be able to feel like you've gotten something done while playing 45 minutes or 90, and that's it, I would recommend CoX or WoW or even the redesigned EQ1 before I'd recommend Vanguard.

I have to disagree about that. From beta 2 to beta 5 I, personally, felt like I could accomplish something in an hour. Sometimes that was crafting, sometimes that was harvesting, sometimes that was adventuring/quests. To me this is a personality issue not a game issue. I find completing 5 work orders in the crafting sphere feels rewarding, you might not.

As for Brad’s statements on the early development of Vangaurd… I think you should go read some of the stuff posted in the last year. He has been trying to focus the game on the ‘core’ player while allowing room for hardcore and casual player. Again they leave that word undefined but I personally feel my wife and I fall in that category (3-15 hours a week).

Here is a video interview that I thought was good on the subject: http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=14626&type=mov&pl=game

 

[Vocenoctum]

I have to disagree about that. From beta 2 to beta 5 I, personally, felt like I could accomplish something in an hour. Sometimes that was crafting, sometimes that was harvesting, sometimes that was adventuring/quests. To me this is a personality issue not a game issue. I find completing 5 work orders in the crafting sphere feels rewarding, you might not.

I think you might also want to keep in mind that the time you've put into the game and experience you've gotten with it, while giving you a good view of the game, also represents a personal investment that might make your views more biased than you think. The flip side of "they don't know what I know since they haven't seen it" is "I see what I want to see to promote what I like".

 

[borc killer]

I think you might also want to keep in mind that the time you've put into the game and experience you've gotten with it, while giving you a good view of the game, also represents a personal investment that might make your views more biased than you think. The flip side of "they don't know what I know since they haven't seen it" is "I see what I want to see to promote what I like".

Yep. I also had a high end WoW character as well (when I left we had just taken down twin emps if that means anything to you)... so I do have some perspective. Not that I had much time invested. That character only had 25 days played. My EQ1 rogue had almost 300 days played when I quite… collage/jobless will do that to you 

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But the nice thing about any of these is if your mindset is such that you don't really care what other people are doing, there are ways to have fun without grinding.

Well, that's always true, and it's how I prefer to play. But eventually, you notice you're the only one in a zone, and keeping up with the Joneses, at least to the extent that you'll have someone to play with, becomes at least a minor issue.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As for Brad’s statements on the early development of Vangaurd… I think you should go read some of the stuff posted in the last year.

I have. I post at a gaming board where he's posted once in a while and his treatises are always reprinted and argued over.

He has been trying to focus the game on the ‘core’ player while allowing room for hardcore and casual player. Again they leave that word undefined but I personally feel my wife and I fall in that category (3-15 hours a week).

That's the genius of throwing terms around and not defining them.

History -- and many of his comments -- lead me to believe that this particular leopard hasn't changed his spots as to the "right" way to play his game and that the focus will be increasingly obvious as players level.

But hey, in a matter of hours, the pudding can and will be searched for proof by tens of thousands of players, if not more.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And, for what it's worth, if you took down the Twin Emps in WoW, I'm not sure how casual of a player you really are, at least as the term is commonly used. That Vanguard fits your playstyle may well mean that we actually agree on everything but terminology.

 

[borc killer]

And, for what it's worth, if you took down the Twin Emps in WoW, I'm not sure how casual of a player you really are, at least as the term is commonly used. That Vanguard fits your playstyle may well mean that we actually agree on everything but terminology.

At that time I was barley playing… just happened to do a lot of the AQ40 raids. I never even took any loot from AQ because I knew I would not be on much, but previous to that I was hardcore, 3-5 nights a week 3-5 hours a night can really burn someone out. And getting old and getting a job does not help. But that was the only way I could further my toon, grind raid instances, I had no since of achievement unless without spending 5 hours on a raid. And when Nox came out it just made it clear WoW was not for me anymore.

I don’t think anyone knows for sure how Vanguard will be once you are max level for 3 months, including Brad. But it should be fun finding out