Variant Turning Rule in CD and Greater Turning

[Shin Okada]

Our play group is now wondering if we should adapt the variant turning rule in Complete Divine. It seems to be a good rule. But it does not say how shall we handle greater turning. Are there any official clarification for it?

Also, I am curious if various feats and magic items which increases turning damage and/or effective cleric level may make turning too powerful. Phylactery of Undead Turning (+4 to effective cleric level) combined with Empower Turning feat seems really nasty against undead monsters.

Also, it seems that evil clerics cannot fight against undead effectively. They can heal their fellow undeads. But when meeting opposing undead creatures, they are in trouble.

 

[KarinsDad]

We implemented the variant rule in our high level game and then nobody took a Cleric.

As for the various turning special abilities and feats, I do not have anything official. But, this is what I wrote up for the house rules:

Empower Turning: increase damage dice by 50%

Greater Turning / Discipline of the Sun: 100% of damage dice (i.e. Maximized Turning)


I also changed the save DC because it was too high and didn't follow the standard DC rules. I made it DC + 1/2 Cleric level + Cha and turn resistance adds to the save and subtracts from the damage (as if it were both a bonus and a resistance due to the fact that turn resistance is so wimpy if this variant rule is used).

That way, the DC is on par with spells and things like undead damaging characters. I don't remember where I read it, but the equation for energy drain and most other undead special attacks tends to be DC + 1/2 HD + Cha for undead.


With regard to evil Clerics, I would just allow them to choose to either heal or harm undead on a per encounter basis. That just makes evil Clerics more evil.

 

[Caliban]

We implemented the variant rule in our high level game and then nobody took a Cleric.

As for the various turning special abilities and feats, I do not have anything official. But, this is what I wrote up for the house rules:

Empower Turning: increase damage dice by 50%

Greater Turning / Discipline of the Sun: increase damage dice by 100% (i.e. Maximized Turning)

...

With regard to evil Clerics, I would just allow them to choose to either heal or harm undead on a per encounter basis. That just makes evil Clerics more evil.

I think that is probably the best way to handle it. Or allow evil clerics to still Rebuke undead.

 

[Shin Okada]

Thanks KarinsDad. Maximizing seems to be a very good solution. One of our players suggested doubling the damage but it seemed too much.

 

[KarinsDad]

Thanks KarinsDad. Maximizing seems to be a very good solution. One of our players suggested doubling the damage but it seemed too much.

You're welcome.

 

[Quidam]

Bolstering

Do any of you have rules for bolstering undead with this variant? I don't think they're defined in the book.

 

[Shin Okada]

Do any of you have rules for bolstering undead with this variant? I don't think they're defined in the book.

BY that variant rule, clerics who channel negative energy heal undead monsters. In my understanding, that is the replacement for Bolstering.

 

[Quidam]

BY that variant rule, clerics who channel negative energy heal undead monsters. In my understanding, that is the replacement for Bolstering.

I had thought that to be the replacement for rebuking, as the ability itself is reffered to Turning/Rebuking.

Bolstering is what an evil cleric can do ahead of time to make the undead more resistant to turning. Perhaps healing ahead of time in the form of temporary hit points? Or a bonus to the save? Even if they make the save they take half damage, though- I think I prefer the idea of temporary hit points.

 

[Shin Okada]

Bolstering is a counter against turning. And healing is a kind of counter against damaging. So I think that variant rule is filling the role of bolstering. On the other hand, the variant rule does not allow evil clerics to overcome or control undeads.

Giving d6/level points of temporaly hp to all the undead monsters nearby? It sounds too much.

 

[Quidam]

Giving d6/level points of temporaly hp to all the undead monsters nearby? It sounds too much.

Then how about subtracting a target's turn resistance from the dice rolled when turning and allowing an evil cleric, by bolstering, to replace the undead's current turn resistance with the cleric's level? This would allow two opposing, equal level clerics to cancel each other out.

I just don't like the idea that there's no way for a high-level cleric to protect his low-level undead from instant dustage the next time a good cleric comes by.