D&D 5E Vecna's Dread Counterspell vs. Counterspell -- What's the Diff?

[bedir than]

But he also needs to utter a dread word, which seems difficult to do in response to a spell you don’t know is being cast. The question in my mind is, does he know a spell is being cast if it’s subtle and has no components? I’m on the fence about that.

Is the creature casting a spell?
Can Vecna see the creature?

If both answers are a yes the sentence as structured means Vecna can use Dread Counterspell.

 

[MarkB]

Is the creature casting a spell?
Can Vecna see the creature?

If both answers are a yes the sentence as structured means Vecna can use Dread Counterspell.

But does it mean that he knows he can use it?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But does it mean that he knows he can use it?

Vecna knows all.

 

[Mort]

But he also needs to utter a dread word, which seems difficult to do in response to a spell you don’t know is being cast. The question in my mind is, does he know a spell is being cast if it’s subtle and has no components? I’m on the fence about that.

While it SHOULD have been in Vecna's actual stat block, the included adventure clarifies that Vecna is extra sensitive to spellcasting (doesn't need an arcana check etc.). So I think it's justified, to she can be fluffed how ever you like.

And again, Vecna is already not a strong CR26, this interpretation at least helps a bit.

 

[Charlaquin]

Is the creature casting a spell?
Can Vecna see the creature?

If both answers are a yes the sentence as structured means Vecna can use Dread Counterspell.

He can use it under those conditions, yes. The question is if he would know those conditions are met?

 

[Charlaquin]

Vecna knows all.

It doesn’t say that though.

 

[Mort]

He can use it under those conditions, yes. The question is if he would know those conditions are met?

Sometimes for the mechanic to make sense, you have to justify backwards.

If the only way the mechanic makes sense to you is Vecna instinctively knows the spell is being cast - then justify the mechanic that way

 

[Charlaquin]

While it SHOULD have been in Vecna's actual stat block, the incised adventure clarifies that Vecna is extra sensitive to spellcasting (doesn't need an arcana check etc.). So I think it's justified, to she can be fluffed how ever you like.

Yeah, which was pointed out in the others thread and moved me from “convinced he wouldn’t know” to “on the fence.”

And again, Vecna is already not a strong CR26, this interpretation at least helps a bit.

This argument is not convincing to me, and in fact makes me less inclined to agree because it seems like the people on the “he knows and can use it” side are motivated as much by wanting Vecna to be a strong opponent as by trying to interpret what’s actually there.

 

[bedir than]

He can use it under those conditions, yes. The question is if he would know those conditions are met?

Does Paul the Fighter 2.0 know that he has a thing called Action Surge, or is that only a mechanic that the Player knows?

 

[Mort]

Yeah, which was pointed out in the others thread and moved me from “convinced he wouldn’t know” to “on the fence.”

This argument is not convincing to me, and in fact makes me less inclined to agree because it seems like the people on the “he knows and can use it” side are motivated as much by wanting Vecna to be a strong opponent as by trying to interpret what’s actually there.

I've never been much for:

What is the absolute "right" answer for everyone?

I'm much more concerned for what is the right answer for me and my campaign and what makes sense for that. And is the monster effective, with the interpretation presented - absolutely played a part (because if the answer was no it's not effective, I'd change it anyway).