D&D 5E Version 6 of my Homebrewed Warlord class!

[Quartz]

Lots of stuff already covered so I won't repeat that. I do have one textual issue. Throughout the document you refer to 'd6'. I think you should refer to 'die' or 'dice' throughout the document.

I.e instead of

Afterward, remove 1d6 from your Insight Pool.

have

Afterward, remove one die from your Insight Pool.

and instead of

Improve Precision: When a willing creature you can see within 30 feet of you targets a creature for an attack, you can use your reaction and remove 2d6 from your insight pool to grant that attack advantage.

have

Improve Precision: When a willing creature you can see within 30 feet of you targets a creature for an attack, you can use your reaction and remove two dice from your insight pool to grant that attack advantage.

(change italicised)

This allows for the d6 to be changed to a different die size. For instance, instead of granting the feat at level 10, you might increase the die size from d6 to d8.

All that said, the big one I've spotted is that the only ability that uses the Insight Dice as dice is the Improve Damage ability. So I wonder if you actually need Insight Dice at all? Perhaps instead you have Insight Points and the Improve Damage ability becomes

Improve Damage: When an ally you can see within 30 feet of you inflicts damage to one or more creature(s) you can also see, you can use your reaction to increase the damage dealt by the ally by a number of dice equal to the points in your Insight Pool. Use the dice involved in the attack; d6 otherwise. Afterward, remove one point from your Insight Pool.

(i.e. someone doing damage with a dagger rolls extra d4s; someone using a greataxe rolls extra d12s.)

I also think that Improve Damage is a bit too good in later levels and should have an increased cost:

Improve Damage: When an ally you can see within 30 feet of you inflicts damage to one or more creature(s) you can also see, you can use your reaction to increase the damage dealt by the ally by one die at a cost of one point from your Insight Pool. You may increase the damage by two dice per extra point of your Insight Pool expended to a maximum number of points equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Use the dice involved in the attack; d6 otherwise.

You might also want to restrict Improve Damage to non-magical attacks and attacks that aren't special abilities. For instance, should it stack with Sneak Attack, Assassinate, and Meteor Swarm? How about Cure Wounds used on Undead?

 

[Undrave]

Lots of stuff already covered so I won't repeat that. I do have one textual issue. Throughout the document you refer to 'd6'. I think you should refer to 'die' or 'dice' throughout the document.

I.e instead of



have



and instead of



have



(change italicised)

This allows for the d6 to be changed to a different die size. For instance, instead of granting the feat at level 10, you might increase the die size from d6 to d8.

All that said, the big one I've spotted is that the only ability that uses the Insight Dice as dice is the Improve Damage ability. So I wonder if you actually need Insight Dice at all? Perhaps instead you have Insight Points and the Improve Damage ability becomes

Improve Damage: When an ally you can see within 30 feet of you inflicts damage to one or more creature(s) you can also see, you can use your reaction to increase the damage dealt by the ally by a number of dice equal to the points in your Insight Pool. Use the dice involved in the attack; d6 otherwise. Afterward, remove one point from your Insight Pool.

(i.e. someone doing damage with a dagger rolls extra d4s; someone using a greataxe rolls extra d12s.)

I also think that Improve Damage is a bit too good in later levels and should have an increased cost:

Improve Damage: When an ally you can see within 30 feet of you inflicts damage to one or more creature(s) you can also see, you can use your reaction to increase the damage dealt by the ally by one die at a cost of one point from your Insight Pool. You may increase the damage by two dice per extra point of your Insight Pool expended to a maximum number of points equal to your Proficiency Bonus. Use the dice involved in the attack; d6 otherwise.

You might also want to restrict Improve Damage to non-magical attacks and attacks that aren't special abilities. For instance, should it stack with Sneak Attack, Assassinate, and Meteor Swarm? How about Cure Wounds used on Undead?

Well, there used to be more uses of the dice but I simplified them out of the design and I never thought to take them out… hmmm… The Ardent has a feature that rolls them but I can reword it…

 

[Undrave]

Your Warlord is already providing utility that none of the other martials can match at these levels via his Move and Rise Up Shouts. If he can do those things when needed and provide comparable damage to fighters/barbarians at these levels then he's already slightly ahead.

I guess I wasn't valuing the utility enough! That's a good point. Move and Rise Up can totally interact with the casters and the Level 1 Warlord can just be a front line guy, like a level 1 Ranger or Paladin.

Pushing that Battlefield Insight ability to level 2 and placing more limitations on the Insight Pool resource early game could work. You could probably give 1 use of that ability per encounter early and then expand out the uses Pool Size and recharge of it later.

You've convinced me to push Insight to level 2 (though I've debated shifting Shouts to level 2 instead). That said, I REALLY want to keep the base class as an At-Will class, it's why I picked the Rogue chassis after all... How about at level 2 you don't actually start with any Insight at Initiative? That would come in later, and thus you could be in a situation where someone moves before you in the initiative order and you can't Insight their damage?

To put this back toward your warlord - advantage on persuasion/intimidation/deception for soldiers/militiamen/bandits might make a good out of combat ability.

I have an ability like that later on, but I'm not sure if it fits in the progression that early, thematically speaking. I'm sure you can tell I considered 'Student of Banner' to be a Ribbon ability, like Thieve's Cant.

Maybe I could give them a minor 'Song of Rest' style of effect? Like... they can attend to prof number allies and if they spend HD those allies get a more reliable dice roll? I'm just spitballing here...

The Help action stuff I really think is the domain of the Rogue Mastermind now. I'm not sure using the direct help action makes sense when everything so far is driven off the attack action and when an ally does something as a reaction.

Alright then. I could probably recycle some of the 'Weakness' as stuff you can do with a reaction. Like "If an ally targets a creature for an attack, spend your reaction and if they hit 'X' happen" that sort of thing.

I don't see that. Low level Warlords should be commanding martials not mages. As soon as you get Battlefield Insight you have an ability that can interact with mages and even their AOE attacks. I think for early game that should be fine.

Honestly I've been so focused on my Rogue chassis thing I had forgotten how limited a 5e level 1 character can truly be. I had lost some perspective. I'm glad I took a break from working on this project because I feel much more willing to just jettison ideas that aren't working out.

I missed that suggestion. I don't have a problem with granting an extra attack the way you are doing so, but I would take off the proficiency bonus addition. Your Warlord is already providing utility that none of the other martials can match at these levels. You could add in another shout that adds damage. I think I would keep those 2 shouts separate though. Let the warlord decide.

The utility of Shouts used to be more narrow because each one key'ed off a different secondary mental stat. Now that I ditched that MAD concept, it bring versatility into it that I didn't account for. It also gives me freedom to add another shout.

Definitely not a class or something I want in my game. But I like the design and the elegance of it.

Thanks, it better look good after six version the early ones were NOT elegant.

This allows for the d6 to be changed to a different die size. For instance, instead of granting the feat at level 10, you might increase the die size from d6 to d8.

Ah that's a good point! I don't have any dice size changing ability at the moment, but having that design space is also a good idea.

You might also want to restrict Improve Damage to non-magical attacks and attacks that aren't special abilities. For instance, should it stack with Sneak Attack, Assassinate, and Meteor Swarm? How about Cure Wounds used on Undead?

Why though? I want the Warlord to be able to synergize with any party composition. If they absolutely need a martial guy on the team to function, it kinda takes away from them.

 

[FrogReaver]

I guess I wasn't valuing the utility enough! That's a good point. Move and Rise Up can totally interact with the casters and the Level 1 Warlord can just be a front line guy, like a level 1 Ranger or Paladin.

Thanks. I'd say that shout ability is more distinctive than any other.

You've convinced me to push Insight to level 2 (though I've debated shifting Shouts to level 2 instead). That said, I REALLY want to keep the base class as an At-Will class, it's why I picked the Rogue chassis after all... How about at level 2 you don't actually start with any Insight at Initiative? That would come in later, and thus you could be in a situation where someone moves before you in the initiative order and you can't Insight their damage?

I don't think that's toning it back enough for a level 2 ability. Think Action Surge/2 uses of divine smite/Reckless attack (advantage with serious drawback), cunning action (chance for advantage or guaranteed disengage/dash) power level stuff.

+1d6 damage nearly ever turn is still a bit too much at level 2 IMO. I think having it start out being once an encounter would help it fall in line balance wise and we can increase the uses (twice at most per encounter at this level)

If you are set on the level 2 ability being at will we have to tone back its power or give it a significant drawback / chance to work. There's lots of possibilities here and I've not really found one that I really like.

I have an ability like that later on, but I'm not sure if it fits in the progression that early, thematically speaking. I'm sure you can tell I considered 'Student of Banner' to be a Ribbon ability, like Thieve's Cant.

Yea. I was suggesting something like that for the expertise like ability of rogue. Since your goal is to follow that design to some extent.

Maybe I could give them a minor 'Song of Rest' style of effect? Like... they can attend to prof number allies and if they spend HD those allies get a more reliable dice roll? I'm just spitballing here...

I wouldn't do a song of rest style effect, it doesn't fit this characters concept IMO. Which is grants combat insights. I'm not sure right off what could go there.

Alright then. I could probably recycle some of the 'Weakness' as stuff you can do with a reaction. Like "If an ally targets a creature for an attack, spend your reaction and if they hit 'X' happen" that sort of thing.

Possibly

Honestly I've been so focused on my Rogue chassis thing I had forgotten how limited a 5e level 1 character can truly be. I had lost some perspective. I'm glad I took a break from working on this project because I feel much more willing to just jettison ideas that aren't working out.

Yea. 4e characters felt alot more robust at level 1. I think that's some of the issue. I think 4e level 1 is more like 5e level 3. So that's the point I'd want it to feel like the 4e warlord (but still feel like a warlord through levels 1 and 2).

The utility of Shouts used to be more narrow because each one key'ed off a different secondary mental stat. Now that I ditched that MAD concept, it bring versatility into it that I didn't account for. It also gives me freedom to add another shout.

I can see that. I like them not keying of mental stats. Maybe subclasses can key off mental stats more. I've not gotten to them yet so i'll let ya know when i evaluate them.

 

[Undrave]

I don't think that's toning it back enough for a level 2 ability. Think Action Surge/2 uses of divine smite/Reckless attack (advantage with serious drawback), cunning action (chance for advantage or guaranteed disengage/dash) power level stuff.

+1d6 damage nearly ever turn is still a bit too much at level 2 IMO. I think having it start out being once an encounter would help it fall in line balance wise and we can increase the uses (twice at most per encounter at this level)

If you are set on the level 2 ability being at will we have to tone back its power or give it a significant drawback / chance to work. There's lots of possibilities here and I've not really found one that I really like.

It was meant to replace Sneak Attack after all...

Well, one thing I can certainly do is have the Warlord commit to it BEFORE the allies does their attack roll/cast a spell. That means there's still a chance they'll miss and you wasted your reacton. I think that's already a solid step.

Yea. I was suggesting something like that for the expertise like ability of rogue. Since your goal is to follow that design to some extent.

I could always move the tool proficiency from the basic proficiency to here somehow with some expertise in them? It's a bit off brand for the Insight aspect but I do want the concept to have a little more breadth somehow...

 

[Undrave]

I wouldn't do a song of rest style effect, it doesn't fit this characters concept IMO. Which is grants combat insights. I'm not sure right off what could go there.

Really wish I had my 4e PHB3 handy, I bet I could find some neat inspiration in skill powers and martial practices...