Hi. My group are considering trying the alternative wound points /vitality points system from Unearthed Arcana, and want to hear from others who have tried the same. What do you think of the system? Is it any better than hit points? And what kind of modifications did you have to do to make it work?
Vitality/Wound points vs Hit points
- Thread starter Trellian
- Start date
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Honestly, I never really felt it was all that different. I first was exposed to it when I ran Star Wars d20 and it still felt like the old "Hah! I took 8 points of damage but I still have 30 VP". Having Crits go straight to the WP does change things up a bit though and now players really are scared when that "20" comes up on the dice. For a really different HP system that is still d20 I'd suggest the Lifeblood system in Traveller T20. It also uses a combination of Armor as AC and Armor as DR but it is different from D&D Unearthed Arcana. Check it out... you might like it better. I know that Traveller T20 Lite is free for download off the Traveller site but I don't remember if the new combat rules were covered in it. I've also heard that Mutants & Masterminds has a great twist to combat in regards to HP but I haven't personally played it.
Edit: One warning... using the Lifeblood system makes Undead, Constructs, and any other creature without a CON stat VERY deadly compared to the PCs. You have to literally take those kinds of creatures apart piece by piece. VP is kinda similar in that you can't crit those creatures so you'll never do direct WP damage to them (not that they even have WP) but since with Lifeblood there is a good chance to do Lifeblood damage every round it is deadlier for the PCs. Against flesh and bone opponents it is equally deadly for both sides.
Edit 2: I just checked, the Lifeblood rules are indeed in the T20 Lite. Check out page 32 of the PDF for rules on the Traveller Combat System.
Traveller T20 Site
Edit: One warning... using the Lifeblood system makes Undead, Constructs, and any other creature without a CON stat VERY deadly compared to the PCs. You have to literally take those kinds of creatures apart piece by piece. VP is kinda similar in that you can't crit those creatures so you'll never do direct WP damage to them (not that they even have WP) but since with Lifeblood there is a good chance to do Lifeblood damage every round it is deadlier for the PCs. Against flesh and bone opponents it is equally deadly for both sides.
Edit 2: I just checked, the Lifeblood rules are indeed in the T20 Lite. Check out page 32 of the PDF for rules on the Traveller Combat System.
Traveller T20 Site
Last edited:
Ranger REG
Explorer
It's a decent system. When you get hurt (damage to WP), you get fatigued, with the possibility of passing out from such trauma. But at least you have VP to help get you through. It does allow even the lowliest character to take down high-level characters with a lucky strike.
I do recommend that you follow the rules modifications to weapon damage (e.g., eliminating critical hit multipliers). You should also consider using the Armor Damage Reduction rule as well. Sneak Attack bonus damage dice should be converted to +1 point of WP damage per +1d6.
I do recommend that you follow the rules modifications to weapon damage (e.g., eliminating critical hit multipliers). You should also consider using the Armor Damage Reduction rule as well. Sneak Attack bonus damage dice should be converted to +1 point of WP damage per +1d6.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
As a shameless plug:
I developed a combination of Wound/Vitality point and Massive Damage Threshold rules. Variant rules for it can be found here:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86190
Mustrum Ridcully
I developed a combination of Wound/Vitality point and Massive Damage Threshold rules. Variant rules for it can be found here:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86190
Be aware though: the rules must be terrible, since only a few ever answered to them... 
Mustrum Ridcully
Desdichado
Hero
The only changes that are really needed are that the critical ranges of some weapons don't make much sense anymore with VP/WP. Other than that, whether or not VP/WP works well depends on what you want it to do. It does make critical hits scarier, but it also makes the reliance on magical healing less important. It's a great option for a party without a cleric, for example, or for a lower magic setting.
spider_minion
First Post
I've used the WP/VP* briefly with a party of low-level characters. The extra WP makes a big difference on these levels and battles can go on a bit longer than one might expect. One problem I had with it is that every time something takes WP damage, you have to make a saving throw. The party was making tons of saving throws all the time, which kinda got annoying. Also, the -2 penalty to str and dex (if memory serves) is very easy to forget about. The main problem is that there's a lot more stuff to keep track of.
Other than those things, it worked alright. I like the way it handles staggered and dying characters.
So I have mixed feelings about it. I haven't tried it on mid or high levels, however. I'm not sure if the added complexity is worth it.
*I don't have Unearthed Arcana, but someone posted the (slightly tweaked) WP/VP system on Enworld. So its possible what I'm using could be a bit different.
Other than those things, it worked alright. I like the way it handles staggered and dying characters.
So I have mixed feelings about it. I haven't tried it on mid or high levels, however. I'm not sure if the added complexity is worth it.
*I don't have Unearthed Arcana, but someone posted the (slightly tweaked) WP/VP system on Enworld. So its possible what I'm using could be a bit different.
Desdichado
Hero
I haven't read them in a while, but why are you making saving throws every time? The staggered and fatigued options are automatic, aren't they? You don't need to save vs. massive death, because there's no such thing anymore.spider_minion said:
I'm a little confused, but maybe my understanding of WP/VP (pretty much from Star Wars) is a little off.
We use a variant of it in our campaign and it works pretty well for us. It provides a bit more drama, because characters who have taken wound points don't preform as well as those who haven't. Getting hurt actually means something.
As for it being "better" than hit points, that depends on what you want. With the standard vitality rules, a party can go through fights, rest for an hour or two and get into another fight, all without the benefit of magical healing. At the same time, a lucky die roll can endanger even a high level character. IMO, that creates a great tension... sure, you can fight a lot but there is always a real danger.
Modifications to the system that I use (because I can never use anything without changing it):
1) Vitality points recover at the rate of hit points and wounds recover at the rate of ability damage. This makes magical healing important again and makes any kind of damage a little more serious.
2) I use the "negative wounds" rules from Star Wars Revised. It works basically the same as negative hit points, except it kicks in when you run out of wound points. Brings the whole "my character is unconcious and bleeding out" tension back into the game.
3) When the party is fighting a bunch of minions, I don't bother making Fort saves for the minions when they take wound damage. If they take wounds equal to their Fort save mod +5, they are stunned and once they are stunned, they are out of the fight. Major villians and PCs make saves and are stunned per the normal rules.
Overall, I like the vitality/wounds rules because they make taking damage a bit more serious. Even a high level fighter thinks a little before stepping into a fight because even a lowly minion could get the crit that takes him down. We enjoy the tension that brings to the game.
As for it being "better" than hit points, that depends on what you want. With the standard vitality rules, a party can go through fights, rest for an hour or two and get into another fight, all without the benefit of magical healing. At the same time, a lucky die roll can endanger even a high level character. IMO, that creates a great tension... sure, you can fight a lot but there is always a real danger.
Modifications to the system that I use (because I can never use anything without changing it):
1) Vitality points recover at the rate of hit points and wounds recover at the rate of ability damage. This makes magical healing important again and makes any kind of damage a little more serious.
2) I use the "negative wounds" rules from Star Wars Revised. It works basically the same as negative hit points, except it kicks in when you run out of wound points. Brings the whole "my character is unconcious and bleeding out" tension back into the game.
3) When the party is fighting a bunch of minions, I don't bother making Fort saves for the minions when they take wound damage. If they take wounds equal to their Fort save mod +5, they are stunned and once they are stunned, they are out of the fight. Major villians and PCs make saves and are stunned per the normal rules.
Overall, I like the vitality/wounds rules because they make taking damage a bit more serious. Even a high level fighter thinks a little before stepping into a fight because even a lowly minion could get the crit that takes him down. We enjoy the tension that brings to the game.
Joshua Dyal said:
When a character takes wound damage, they must make a Fort save or be Stunned. It's an interesting little bit hidden in the rules that makes any wound potentially dangerous. However, the DC on the save is usually low enough not to be an issue in my experience.
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