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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahrimon" data-source="post: 2797323" data-attributes="member: 12630">I need to remember not to ask questions when I won't be able to get back for a couple days...It seems to be the consensus of most people that:1.  Someone oweing the VoP character a favor is ok as long as the Vop character doesn't use that favor for any materail gain.  Using to help others is ok.2.  Someone casting a spell for the VoP character, to benefit someone else is ok.  i.e. raise dead.  This is similar to the favor above.3.  Someone placing a permanent magic on the VoP character is not ok.  While in no way a material benefit, it is still a "long lasting" benefit that the VoP character will enjoy for a good while.I'm good with one and two.  But three still leaves me feeling a bit iffy.  To clarify, the VoP character should never be asking for a reward, nor expect one.  But if one is given freely after the fact, I'm not sure if it violates the vow.  Of course these are all under DM control, so it doesn't give the player a chance to try and powergame extra bonuses for his character.There are too many situations where a VoP character could unwillingly be given the benefits of permanent magic.  If the VoP character needed to get his ally back to town for that resurection spell, would he be forced to leave all of the gear behind so he doesn't carry material possesions?  I would say no.  If the character was given a material possesion, they could get rid of in an appropriate manner.  Given ownership of land, find someone responsible to give it to as soon as possible.  Given an item, give it someone who would use it to further goodness.  Given gold, give it to the truely needy.  Given a permanent magical effect,...  What do you do?  You can't give it away.What do you do about non dispellable magical effects?  Say Mr cold tired adventurer finds a room in the dungeon to hold up in.  In this room there's a fountain.  Drinking from this fountain permanently raises ability X by two points.  You VoP character just unwittingly used a magical item with permanent benefits.  I don't know if inadvertant use of an item qualifies as grounds to loose the vow, or if it's covered in the BoED.  But even if some form of atonement is required for accidentally using an item, the benefits are still there.Like someone mentioned.  Not allowing permanent magical effects gives the BBEG a perfect method to remove the vow.  Place a permanent spell on them and bam, there goes their vow.  Want to mess with a captive a bit, put some permanent magic on them and then release them.  They have no idea they have this magical effect, but thier vow is broken and they loose thier powers.Pyrex mentioned that a warforged composite plating has a value after it's been enchanted.  I don't agree with this.  Which is mainly why I merged it with the permancy question into a more general permanent magical effect.  Does a character gain a GP value because they have a permanent magical effect?  For example: Roy's mystical boots of flying cost 30,000gp.  Is a character who gets a permanent magical effect exactly the same as the boots now worth 30,000+ gp?  And even if you look at it that way.  It doesn't matter what a character is worth.  As long as he carries no items other than those allowed by the vow.</blockquote>

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