Vow of Poverty and Epic Levels

[CRGreathouse]

If I were the guy you just replied to, I'd be wondering what you meant by that.

My first post on this thread was sarcastic. I don't allow VoP in my game, so keeping "the same level of power[...] that it enjoys in pre-epic play" makes it too powerful IMO.

 

[Scion]

Extrapolate some exalted feats to epic proportions more or less. Possibly a little less than more. (ie stronger than the normal ones, but probably only overlapping the previous one with a prereq of the previous and making it roughly twice as good. easy enough)

Along with finding the gp value that a character should have for that level and increasing it by about 30% and then just increase the things that should be increased. It can be done so many ways it isnt even funny. Just do something you feel is balanced and see how it goes. Or post it on the houserules and let people tear it to shreds and then go with whatever you feel like.

 

[James McMurray]

My first post on this thread was sarcastic. I don't allow VoP in my game, so keeping "the same level of power[...] that it enjoys in pre-epic play" makes it too powerful IMO.

Ah, and here I thought your first post was serious. A little too powerful for my tastes, but viable in some campaigns. You might want to try using some sort of emoticon to let folks know you're being sarcastic.

I used to like for that, but it seems to have gone away with the new "upgrade."

 

[DM_Matt]

Extrapolate some exalted feats to epic proportions more or less. Possibly a little less than more. (ie stronger than the normal ones, but probably only overlapping the previous one with a prereq of the previous and making it roughly twice as good. easy enough)

Along with finding the gp value that a character should have for that level and increasing it by about 30% and then just increase the things that should be increased. It can be done so many ways it isnt even funny. Just do something you feel is balanced and see how it goes. Or post it on the houserules and let people tear it to shreds and then go with whatever you feel like.

Yeah, you definately need to make up more exalted feats to do this. As it is, a VOP character runs out of feats he particularly wants to take long before epic levels.

 

[Brekki]

We also have an epic vop character ... he and the DM made the following rules.

· Exalted bonus to AC: 4 + 1 per 3 levels.
· Deflection bonus to AC: 1 per 6 levels.
· Natural armor bonus to AC: 1 per 8 levels.
· Resistance bonus to saves: 1 per 6 levels (starting at level 7).
· +2 enhancement bonus on two abilities: 1 per 4 levels (starting at level 23)
· Exalted strike: enhancement bonus to attack and damage: +1 per 4 levels.

· 22: Mindblank (ex): continually under the effect of a mindblank spell.
· 24: Complete sustenance (ex): no longer sleep required, immune to sleep-effects.
· 25: Damage Reduction (su): DR increases to 10/epic
· 25: Bonus Ascetic Feat
· 26: Energy resistance (ex): improves to 30.
· 28: Deathward (su): continually under the effect of a deathward spell.
· 30: Airwalk (su): can act as if continually under the effect of an airwalk spell.
· 30: Bonus Ascetic Feat
· 31: Damage Reduction (ex): DR increases to 15/epic
· 35: Energy immunity (su): the ascetic is immune to acid, cold, electricity, fire and sonic
· 35: Bonus Ascetic Feat
· 37: Damage Reduction (ex): DR increases to 15/epic and evil
· 40: Bonus Ascetic Feat

Bonus Ascetic Feats are: Any exalted feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds, any newly designed epic exalted feast, plus Armour Skin*, Bonus Domain**, Damage Reduction*, Energy Resistance*, Extended Life Span*, Fast Healing*, Great Charisma*, Great Constitution*, Great Dexterity*, Great Intelligence*, Great Smiting, Great Strength*, Great Wisdom*, Improved Alignment-Based Casting (good), Improved Aura of Courage, Improved Spell Resistance*, Music of the Gods, Perfect Health, Planar Turning, Positive Energy Aura, Spontaneous Domain Access**, Widen Aura of Courage.

 

[Artoomis]

You all have inspired me to draw up my proposed Epics rule for Exalted VoP characters.

First, no new abilities. That goes against the spirit of Epic rules, I think. Instead, new abilities may be gained through feats.

As above:

· Exalted bonus to AC: continues at + 1 per 3 levels.
· Deflection bonus to AC: continues at 1 per 6 levels.
· Natural armor bonus to AC: continues at 1 per 8 levels.
· Resistance bonus to saves: continues at 1 per 6 levels (starting at level 7).
· +2 enhancement bonus on two abilities: continues at 1 per 4 levels (starting at level 23 - adds one new ability at level 23 and the last one at level 26)
· Exalted strike: continues at add enhancement bonus to attack and damage: +1 per 4 levels.

Plus a bonus Epic Exalted feat every even level.

Examples of Epic Exalted feats (without the prerequisites - some should have VoP as a prerequisite for sure)

Exalted Great Fortitude: +4 Fortitude saves vs. Evil.
Exalted Lightning Reflexes: +4 Refex saves vs. Evil
Exalted Iron Will: +4 Will saves vs. Evil.
Intuitive Damage: Wisdom bonus used instead of Strength for damage.
Improved Holy Ki Strike: +2d6 damage vs. Evil (Stacks with Holy Ki Strike)
Improved Fist of the Heavens: + 2 Stunning Fist DC and +1 extra round of Stunning vs. Evil (stacks with Fist of the Heavens)
Improved Exalted Spell Resistence: +4 SR vbs, Evil, stacks with Exalted Spell Resistence.
Improved Energy Resistence: Energy Resistence improves to 30.
Exalted Mind Blank: Continually under the effects of a Mind Blank spell.
Extra Class Power: Gain two additional uses of any once per week class ability (may be taken more than once).
Exalted Lesser Fortification: 25%
Exalted Moderate Fortification: 75%
Exalted Greater Fortification: 100%

Or any feat that improves saves, spell resistence, stats, etc. Basically, self-improvement feats that are not directly combat-related feats.

A couple of notes:

1. The selection here was done with a monk in mind. Other Exalted feats should be similarly boosted to Epic.
2. The Vow of Poverty is not equally useful to all classes and no attempt should be made to "fix" that through Epic Exalted feat creation.

 

[Artoomis]

Further looking at how to proceed into epic levels has led me to believe that adding the celestial template from levels 21-24 is a great way for a VoP character to move into epic play.

A few good abilities, lots of spells to cast, ability boosts. Of course, SR is superflous.

The following is modified from the Half-Fiend presented by Sean K Reynolds on the WotC web site.

Half-Celestial

No increase in Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, skill points, ability point increases or feats with level (as normal for ECLs).

Half-
Celestial
Level       
1	Con +2, Cha +2, darkvision 60', outsider type, natural AC +1, 
             spell-like abilities
2	Str +2, Dex +2, Wis +2, immune to disease, Resistance to acid 5,
             cold 5, and electricity 5, SR = Character Level, spell-like 
             abilities, +2 Fort Saves vs. poison
3	Con +2, Cha +2, smite evil (su) 1/day(dam = HD , max 20),
             daylight(sp) at will, DR 5/magic up to 11th level, then 
             DR 10/magic,spell-like abilities, +4 Fort Saves vs. poison 
             (replaces the +2 above)
4	Str +2, Int +2, Wis +2, Resistance to acid 10, cold 10, and
             electricity 10, SR = Character Level + 10, spell-like abilities, 
             wings (fly at 2x base speed)


Spell-like Abilities	Caster level = HD, Save DC Charisma-based	

Half-
Celestial  Character
Level	Level	Spell-Like Ability Gained
1	1st 	Protection from Evil 3/day, Bless 1/day
	7th 	Holy Smite 1/day, Remove Disease 1/day
	13th 	Hallow 1/day
2	3rd 	Aid 1/day, detect evil 1/day	
	6th 	Cure serious wounds 1/day, neutralize poison 1/day
	13th 	Holy Aura 3/day
3	9th 	Dispel Evil 1/day
	15th 	Mass charm monster 1/day
	17th 	Summon monster IX (celestials only) 1/day
4	11th 	Holy word 1/day
	19th 	Resurrection 1/day

 

[Artoomis]

No comments this morning?

Is my idea to go Celestial for the first four epic levels so straightforward and incredibly non-controversial that it's not even worthy of comment?

Or is it that you guys are just plain tired of hearing about Vow of Poverty?

Yes - this pretty much is a blatant plea for your comments, good or bad.

 

[htetickrt]

No comments this morning?

Is my idea to go Celestial for the first four epic levels so straightforward and incredibly non-controversial that it's not even worthy of comment?

I'm a little confused. Is this meant to be an epic level progression for the VoP feat, or is this a new direction for your character?

 

[Artoomis]

I'm a little confused. Is this meant to be an epic level progression for the VoP feat, or is this a new direction for your character?

Both, sort of. I am proposing that taking the Half-Celestial template for the first four levels of Epic advancement is a good (optional) way to start the Epic progression of the Vow of Poverty, which would then pick up again at 25th level.

I think it fits very well with the concept of the Vow of Poverty and being Exalted, plus the stats boosts and other abilities are more-or-less in line with what you'd get from Vow of Poverty for levels 21-25.

Comments?