Scion said:
Wishes were overpriced before, making them more overpriced seems like a pretty huge mistake to me. But that doesnt matter at all to this topic.
With the alternate system 50,000xp becomes a smaller price to pay (in terms of percentage of your current level) than 5,000xp does under the default system. The higher your level, the smaller that percentage is. And you can get 50,000xp from a CR 19 encounter with a 4 person party (base XP 230,000).
The books are single use items for an effect, potions are the same, the amount of time needed to do so may or may not be material. However, the end result is the same and the paths are equal in opportunity cost at some point.
Potions take a standard action. Books take a total of 48 hours over a minimum of 6 days. As I said above, the destinations re the same, but the VoP feat puts a road block on one of those alternate routes.
If the book could be made then someone made it. That means that someone has the ability to grant the wishes, and at less cost for that matter.
Yes, but can you find that person? And if you do, can you convince them to grant you 5 wishes? In my campaign, any tomes that are laying around are either a) there because they were a gift that hasn't been read yet or b) there because the creator is in the process of making them (i.e. the tome is currently +3 and the creator doesn't want to read it unti it is +5).
Can the VoP guy borrow a book to read from someone? He does not possess it, he is merely reading it.
He can borrow abook and read it, but if its a magical tome that is destroyed when read, he is no longer borrowing it, its obviously a gift.
There is no difference between someone buying him the book to read and someone paying for him to get wishes on him or someone giving him wishes for whatever reason or any number of other things that will result in the same effect.
The difference is that the VoP feat goes away if you own something, it doesn't go away if someone casts a spell on you. I agree completely that the end results are the same. However, being [Exalted] is not about end results, its about the path you take to get there.
Either he can have the inherant bonus from some source such as those, or he cannot. It is as simple as that.
In the absence of the VoP feat that is true. Howver, the VoP feat expressly forbids owning items. How is someone giving you a book, that they know will be destroyed, and letting you destroy it for personal gain not "owning that book."?
If he turns them down it is a character choice, good roleplaying or bad depends on the character. It sounds like he believes that exalted should not gain inherant bonuses. Fine then, it is a psuedo possession and shouldnt be allowed for him. But for other exalted, if they see it not as a possesion but something else then they can have it. If they can have it then it can come from any number of sources for any number of reasons. Without breaking the vow.
He would not turn it down because an inherent bonus is a possession. He would turn it down because it isn't right for him to let someone give that much of himself. Letting them target him with wishes would in no way break the vow. But it certainly wouldn't be characteristic of the selflessness that characterizes an exalted character.
In some campaigns you can get away with grabbing a few exalted feats and not having the virtues that the exalted behavior section of the book lays out. Not in mine. But, the player isn't even doing it for the exalted feats. I gaurantee the character would be much more powerful if he had gear instead his VoP beneifts.
Edit: along another line though, as I am interested in how your character would react
what if the caster volunteered to use the spells on the monk increasing his personal abilities (more or less the same as that gained through levels, or feats or whatever) but the monk himself had to pay the exp cost. Effectively using his own essence in order to further power his body. This would seem to be perfectly fine, even prefered, for such a character. It would be a way to further his cause through selfsacrifice in order to make himself better at helping others. Sounds like a great way to go for such a one
I'm not sure how the monk would react, since I'm the dM and not the player. I do know he'd be much more likely to accept the offer than he would if it involved sacrifie on the wish-granter's part. It does actually sound pretty good. Maybe I'll give him that opportunity at some point down the road. I had other options in mind for him, but that one aso sounds doable.
You didnt answer the edit
What do you think about that angle?
Heck, I hadn't even answered the post yet, much less the edit. That reply was to the preious post.
Still though, someone else owns the book, they could read it to them and transfer the energy in some way that way. Or a spell/ritual could be used to transfer the stored wishes in the book to the character. There are ways and ways. Eventually, at some point, it is exactly the same since the book is merely a container for the wishes that is a bit slower than an actual wish, but still the same.
Yep, something could be done to get that monk his inherent bonus. But if it ever involves him owning a container, he loses his VoP feat benefits. I know I keep saying it, but exaltedness is not about ends, its about means.
you feel that inherant bonuses dont violate the vow (at least that is how it sounds) and that is good enough for me.
Exactly. It isn't the bonuses, but the ownership of a 25,000+ gp book that violtes the feat/
