Vow of poverty + peace w/ 10th Monk = +21 ac

[Sir ThornCrest]

Am I high or is this right?

A monk at 10th level with, 20 wis, 16 dex and vows of poverty & peace will have an AC thru the roof!!!
Vow of Poverty (voluntary poverty page 29 BoED)10th level: 1st level +4 exalted bonus to AC increase to +5 at 3rd, +6 at 6th and +7 at 9th level. At 6th level +1 deflection bonus to AC. At 8th level +1 Natural AC. = a bonus of +9 to AC

Vow Of Peace (page 48 BoED): +2 natural AC, +2 deflection AC, and a +2 exalted bonus to AC = a bonus of +6 to AC.

"synergy bonus to AC" if you have both above feats you gain and additional +2 Natural +2deflection and +2 exalted bonus to AC. = a bonus of +6 to AC

this = a total bonus of 9 + 6 + 6 = 21

add on the Monks bonus to ac of +2, his +3 for dex, +6 for his wisdom = +11

THIS IS +32 AC! IS THAT INSANE OR WHAT???? add on a def roll avg =10, +32 = a 42AC
now if you want you can add on the unarmored variant and you got a 50 AC...

and any weapon that hits this guy will have to make a fort save 10+5(1/2 level)+3(16 con) +4 (Vow of Non Violence page 47 +4 to any non damaging ) = 22 or shatter against his skin causing no damage to the Mnk.

+ 5 feats and +1 exalted feats, this is how it is read. Or is it +6 exalted feats?

he gets a +2 to any attribute (he picked wis) at 7th level, at 11th level he gets another +2 to his wis and +2 to another score.

it goes on and on....for a Monk this is perfect!!!

If he remains without owning anything, and doesnt cause hit points of damage to live being he will retian these bonuses...he can cause subdual all he wants...

Thorncrest






A bonus 6 feats 1 of which says must be exalted.

 

[Crothian]

ya, not that big of deal really.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

Despite the insane bonuses this guy gets, you have to keep in mind that he also comes with insane penalties.

First... no HP damage. Ever. He has to "knock out" his opponents. This already puts his usefulness down a severe scale. From a roleplaying persepctive, you also get into trouble with alll of the "adventuring" your man goes on. He can't kill dragons. He can't kill murderers, or any other kinds of criminals ever.

He can never "end" conflicts.... instead he merely prolongs them.

I've always hated the VoP and other chain of "Non" feats in BoED. It really encourages this funky dynamic in D&D that sometimes doesn't make sense (at least, just to me). I mean... what force or deity in the D&D world gives characters bonuses to abilites simply for forsaking goods? That's a real tough one to measure in.

VoP isn't that bad conceptually I guess, but Vow of Non-Violence is like the "adventurer's additude that doesn't work".

Vorcha! The Evil dragon has vowed to kill people over and over and over until he is stopped. What will super AC Vow of Non-Violence do?

"Oh... uh, I'll knock him out."

*shakes his head*

Defensive wise, yeah your character is awesome. But he suffers a huge offensive penalty. His opponents can't kill him... but he can't kill them either. He can knock em out... but they'll just get right back up. He's essentially disconnected himself from the world. Again, my opinion on that one.



Real cool build though.

 

[barsoomcore]

Well...

(haven't read the book, got no idea)

... just because you've knocked someone out doesn't mean you have to walk away and let them get back up, does it? Can't you knock them out, then while they're out cold have your buddy the sorcerer gate them to some alternate dimension where they won't cause anymore trouble? Or, more prosaically, carry them to the nearest authorities and let them deal with the bad guy? I mean, maybe the vow specifically prohibits that, I don't know, but it seems like people are equating "dealing subdual damage" with "doing nothing but dealing subdual damage and then stopping." Which seems like a mistake to me.

 

[Doctor Shaft]

But really, that is what it means, at least how I'm reasoning it.

The reason I have a problem with that feat is that it pretty much excludes you from any adventurer parties. I mean... how many devout pacifists are going to adventure right next to Harry the Fighter and Johnny the Rogue, who both kill their enemies in a violent battle?

And if they are non-violent, knocking people out, and then wisking them off into a different dimesion? Well... I suppose, as long as that gate leads to a place where the guy doesn't get further harmed.

It's a cool feat I guess for a mostly solo character that has a special purpose in the campaign... but as a general "Hey, I like this one" feat, it's kind of messy.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[Elric]

Off the top of my head (don't own BoED) you double-counted the Vow of Peace benefits. Vow of Peace is +6 AC, and worded in such a way that it stacks with all of the Vow of Poverty benefits. Plus, according to your post he only has 20 Wisdom, so +5 from Wisdom AC, not +6.

So +9 VoPoverty, +6 VoPeace, +5 Wisdom, +2 Monk, +3 Dex= 35 AC. Note that 16 Dex and 20 Wis is pretty good for a 10th level Monk with only his VoP bonuses to stats. That means he started with 16 Dex and 16 Wis. What is his Str score? Con? Can he do anything besides stand there? If not, why should anyone need to bother killing him.

I think you have Vow of Nonviolence working with Vow of Peace for +4 DC, but I remember thinking that this didn't work when I created a character by borrowing a friend's BoED. As my DM said, just have him take "Vow of Being an Inanimate Object" and get it over with. I'm not even sure Vow of Peace characters can cause subdual damage...

 

[Sollir Furryfoot]

*shrugs* Those two feats cripple a character's ability to combat, and there are ways of challenging a high AC opponent. Remember, they automatically get hit if asleep or paralyzed, and there's also Fort/Ref/Will saves to worry about. And lets not forget no save spells like Magic Missile

 

[Kradlo]

Vow of Peace

You have to understand the dynamics of the Vows. The Vow of Poverty gives huge bonuses, as per Book of Exalted Deeds. The ascetic forgoes all material possessions, besides a few very humble ones, in return for rewards from on high. This balances against the array of magical goodies that most D&D characters will accumulate as they progress in levels, so that your ascetic character is not completely incapable of dealing with the challenges he may face.

For the monk, that's not such a loss, as he's largely self-sufficient anyway. He needs no weapon, as he is a living weapon, in effect. Keep in mind that the Vow of Poverty, being an exalted feat, requires that the character not only adhere to the rather stringent requirements listed in the feat itself, but must also maintain that good alignment necessary for an exalted character.

The vows of nonviolence and peace are considerably more stringent. These require a code of conduct that few adventurers could or would follow. It requires a rather sophisticated campaign, in which the party may deal with issues of ethics and morality, rather than killing the evil monsters and grabbing their treasure.

Is this for everyone? Obviously not. Playing a true pacificist is a real challenge in roleplaying, especially if the player himself does not believe in that philosophy. The pacificist will not only refrain from acts of violence, using only nonlethal means for his own defense or the defense of others, he will act to prevent others, including his fellow adventurers, from using violence.

That exalted monk, with vows of poverty, nonviolence, and peace, will have an amazingly high armor class. He'll be hard to hit, and he'll have other benefits too numerous to mention here. He'll also be faced with situations that call into question his entire ethos, and that's where the challenge lies.

Faced with a foe dedicated to destruction, can our hero maintain his belief system? Will he continue to eschew violence in the face of unrepentent evil, or will he unswervingly follow the path of peace? That's much more interesting than armor class bonuses and the like.