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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Graf" data-source="post: 3987049" data-attributes="member: 3087">Wits vs. ManipulationArguably, from looking at the book, "reading" a scene and so forth should probably be Wits + Empathy.My policy now is to use Manipulation + Empathy. Why?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I'd rather use Social Attributes for social rolls (i.e. there might be a situation where an academic uses Int + Presence to convince another academic of something but generally socail stuff should be social).</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Manipulation doesn't do anything. Wits is already a good stat that effects combat.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">If Presence is convincing someone to do something through social strength (raw charisma) then Manipulation is, to my mind, figuring out what that person wants (or thinks they want) and then trying to make them think you're going to give it to them. I.e. if you can manipulate someone then you know what they want.</li> </ul>I'll hear arguments for and against of course. If there are any. Conveniently, characters with high Wits seem to have Manipulation within a dot of the Wits. Making this a fairly academic discussion.</blockquote>