Wacky half-baked idea: Card Based Initiative

Aaron2

Explorer
I've been thinking of developing a card-based initiative system similar to the one used in the old WW2 mini game Battleground WW2 with additional ideas from Bushido. Here goes:

Each character has a stat called Actions. Calculate it as 2 + ((Level + Dex Mod + Wis Mod) / 5). So each character will start with a 2 or, maybe, 3 and gain 1 every five levels or so.

With a deck of cards, take one card of a particular value for each Action for each character. For example, Character A will be Kings and has an Actions of 2; so take two Kings and place them in the Action Deck. Character B will add his three Jacks to that deck, etc. Add the monster's cards in as well. You might need several identical decks (which we all got for christmas as part of that poker set).

Now, each round, shuffle the cards and draw them one-by-one. When one of your character's cards is drawn, you get to take one action: either a Standard or Move action. That's it. When the deck is done, the round ends. Reshuffle and start again. [For added randomness, after you've shuffled, shuffle a Joker into the bottom half of the deck. When the Joker comes up the round ends. Too bad for those with missed actions.]

With this system, you can go through the cards quickly and the players will never know when their next action will be so they need to take chances ("will I get my next move before the Ogre attacks so I can run away?"). Also, characters with high initiative will tend to go sooner (since they have more cards to draw) as well as more often.

A couple things. First, there are no more full-round actions. Things that used to take them now take 2 Actions instead. There are no iterative attacks either, higher level character just get more actions. Things like TWF and Rapid Shot have to let you take two shots in a standard action so may need to have their penalties re-adjusted. Also, as character gain levels they will gain action but so will their opponents so it should even out. Woe to the low level character involved in that fight! This actually might help make a single BBEG a more viable opponent since he will move faster relative to the PCs.

You can add new skills or feats that let you give your actions to another character (by commanding or inspiring him to do something). This might allow you to make a viable (and highly valuable) non-combat character.

There are a couple flaws I can see right away. First, the additional actions will allow spellcasters to cast spells faster than they do now. Second, dealing with a deck of cards may take extra time especially since each player acts twice per round. Also, without iterative attacks, high level fighters might never miss. Hopefully, maneuvers from the Book or Iron Might will give them extra things to spend their BAB on.

Flame away.


Aaron
 
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Aaron2

Explorer
the Jester said:
Interesting. Why did you add wisdom to the equation, and what would you do with Improved Initiative and similar feats?
Wisdom was added because it was part of the similar equation in Bushido. It represents the character's awareness of his surroundings. Low Wis characters will spend most of their time trying to figure out what's going on rather than acting.

Because extra actions are so good, I'd probably bump Imp Init down to +2 and add it in. I'd suspect that Fighters would start picking it more often.


Aaron
 

gamecat

Explorer
this seems pretty awesome, but i think fighters will really lose out on this one - iterative attacks are what makes a high level melee combatant match up with the wizard knocking out 10+d6 area effect spells.
 

Aaron2

Explorer
gamecat said:
this seems pretty awesome, but i think fighters will really lose out on this one - iterative attacks are what makes a high level melee combatant match up with the wizard knocking out 10+d6 area effect spells.
Yeah, I'm not sure what I can do. With the RAW, the only way to make a Wizard better was to give him more powerful spells since giving him more spells didn't matter because he's only going to use a few during the combat. In Bushido, you could only cast spells on your first action of each round. I really didn't want to make that distinction.

In the high level Fighter vs. Wizard duel, under the current system, the fighter won't be getting in his iterative attacks since the wizard can still move and then cast another spell forcing the fighter to move as well; thus giving up iterative attacks.

One thing I've considered is to lable some Actions as "Intense" actions. When you do an Intense action you can't do any other free action, esp. a 5-step. So the wizard casts his spell and the fighter charges him and attacks him. Now if the Wizard casts again, he gets an AoO. If the Wizard moves, that's his entire action and the Fighter might get to go again and make another attack.

The other situation is just the Figher vs monsters versus the Wizard vs monsters. I would hope that the increased maneuverability of everyone would make it less likely that a wizard can just sit back and cast every action.


Aaron
 

Thanee

First Post
Sounds like how the initiative is done in Deadlands as well; that works very similar, including the unexpected end of a round.

The biggest problem I see is, that characters can have different numbers of actions per round, which doesn't sound like a good idea for D&D. It'll totally mess up the balance. :)

And, of course, the whole full attack versus spellcasting problem already mentioned.

Also, while it is a cool system, I do not really see the purpose of adding it to D&D. What do you want to accomplish with that (except for making combats totally random, that is ;))?

Bye
Thanee
 

Aaron2

Explorer
Thanee said:
What do you want to accomplish with that?
Good question. The primary reason is that I don't like iterative attacks. The distinction between moving 5' and making 4 attacks and moving 10' and only making one is too harsh for me. Plus, a full-attack is pointless for a low level character. I also would like to encourage high dex fighters and giving them extra actions occasionally would help. I'd like to ease the transition to Epic levels. Handing out extra actions will make Epic characters better but only compared to non-Epic opponents. Finally, I want to add uncertainly (not randomness) to combat. As it is now its to easy to metagame combat ("I'll draw the AoO because I know you'll go before the Ogre", forex).

Truth be told, I mainly want these rules to go with my WW2 game where the Fighter vs. Wizards thing isn't an issue. Plus it cleans up a ROF problem I've been having.


Aaron
 

Gez

First Post
gamecat said:
this seems pretty awesome, but i think fighters will really lose out on this one - iterative attacks are what makes a high level melee combatant match up with the wizard knocking out 10+d6 area effect spells.

A possible fix for that: a fighter's number of attack for a single attack action increases. When a character gets to make 3 attacks in a full attack with the normal rules, he gets to make 2 attacks in an normal attack action. When he gets to make 4 attacks normally, he gets to make 3 with these new rules.
 

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