Wad-Cutter bullets - anyone heard of em?

[kreynolds]

For the purposes of using these rounds in D20 Modern, I'd have to agree with Unseelie.

 

[takyris]

Here's what I think, briefly:

It Depends On The Game.

I've been thinking about a historical campaign with little or no magic, and I had come up with a lot of different weapons rules to let people come up with a good way to differentiate their characters. Saying that a professionally wire-wrapped hilt gives a bonus to avoid being disarmed, while a professional leather-wrapped hilt gives a +1 bonus to initiative rolls. Saying that a blade with a blood groove gives a character a +4 bonus when rolling to avoid a critical fumble, because the hilt is less likely to be slick with blood. Giving swords with two sharp edges the full critical threat range while giving swords with just one sharp edges bonuses to Defense, since characters can use the softer back edge to block strikes more effectively. Whatever.

The reason I might put these rules into a low-magic game is because people like crunchy bits that let them tailor their character the way they want -- and magic is, in default D&D, what does that. Without magic, something else needs to be added to take its place -- hence, me making up rules like that.

But I would NEVER try to add those ruled into a normal D&D game. Characters already HAVE a lot of power in a D&D game, I would completely unbalance the game by letting a fighter get a +4 bonus to avoid critical fumbles, a +1 bonus to avoid being disarmed, and a +1 Dodge bonus to AC, because he's got a wire-wrapped handle, a blood-groove, and a single-edged sword.

Adding in designer bullets is a bit like that. In a no-magic game, I think that designer bullets can be a fun way to make things more interesting. In a game where people are already getting a lot of damage bonuses from funky magical abilities or other stuff, it adds an unnecessary level of complication and slows things down more than it's worth.

-Tacky

 

[Morgenstern]

What's the logic for making it more likely that they would penetrate armor (ie. bonus to hit)?

Making them less likely to penetrate armor but do more damage makes more sense to me.

Even in d20 Modern, Dexterity bonus, dodging, cover, and concealment (shoot-outs in the dark) affect your defense total, so a bonus to attack rolls can represent accuracy rather than armor penetration . And yes, with iSpycraft armor providing DR, I do tend to think of a reduction in damage roll representing a loss of penatration power, but the modifiers still work in d20 Modern- the round is a more accurate, sharpsooting round, but if it hits you, it does not hurt and much as a normal round, and is less likey to triger a massive damage save (even when fired in bursts).

 

[Prince Atom]

I reccomend not using variant ammunition at all. It's complicated and leads to either a bunch of weird, nit-picky little rules, or it leads to munchkinizing the guns-- which are already plenty deadly enough.

Well, sure, I guess you don't want to deal with stuff like JHP and ACP and HEAT in any game other than GURPS.

I think I'd limit myself to having normal ammo and tracer ammo (provides a +2 vision bonus to attack rolls).

TWK

 

[Unseelie]

Well, sure, I guess you don't want to deal with stuff like JHP and ACP and HEAT in any game other than GURPS.

I think I'd limit myself to having normal ammo and tracer ammo (provides a +2 vision bonus to attack rolls).

TWK

But only if you're firing full auto... a tracer's going to be pretty damn useless from a pistol, for instance.

 

[Emiricol]

Tracers should do three things.

1) Give your friends a bonus to locate and fire at something you are shooting at

2) Give your enemies a bonus to locate and fire at you , and

3) slightly reduce the penalties to hit for firing full auto over a number of rounds if you are firing belt-fed weapon.

These can be simply modeled with the usual +/-2 circumstance modifier.

 

[Shadow64]

2) Give your enemies a bonus to locate and fire at you

Reminds me of the saying: "If the enemy is in range, so are you."

 

[Petrosian]

One particular plot of mine took a sharp twist when the party realized that the assassian they'd dealt with at 2nd level (who had a passion for the Walther WA-2000 and only ever used a particular style of bullet) had returned to menace them years later.

Of course, you can have this and not have the combat effects. i once had a character with a fairly distinctive scent in another game. That was a tell tale sign when she did a comeback too. (or at least once was a red-herring.)

This did not mean that i needed to develop a complex set of scent rules or give them bonus combat effects.

 

[Petrosian]

Besides, I just think it adds a lot to the game that the player or NPCs are armed and equiped in a realistic manner.

BTW, a second issue...

is it your experience that variant ammo rules result in this realistic equipping occuring?

In mine it is not. In most games where i saw significant differentiation in ammo, the most frequent result was players doing what they could to equip their PCs with the most advantageous "variant" ammo by the local rulesset even though frequently this ammo was "uncommon in reality" for a number of reasons that were simply not modelled in the game specs.

In other words, the more combat effects the system focused on for variant ammos, the less realistic the equipment used in game became.

 

[Thain]

I guess I was being vauge; I find that levels of realism increase when one introduces a wider assortment of firearms or ammuntion in a logical manner. Only in very rare circumstances should any PC be able to have access to the exact gun and ammo they want.

In a military or law-enforcement game, the player's weapon will be issued to them, so will their ammo. D20M includes a good sidebar on dealing with requestioning of supplies; although, Spycraft does handle this mechanic better.

In a game where the PCs are just civilians, well, access to weapons and esoteric ammo is even more difficult. Gun laws vary widly, I know, but with the exception of handguns, sporting rifles and non-combat shotguns, the PCs will have had to worked very hard to get access to any sort of military grade weaponry.

That all said, with regards to variant ammo, I tedn to control access to it even tighter than I control access to weapons. It will be a very, very rare occassion for a PC to get access to the equivilent of a "Vindicater Minigun with Explosive APDS" in my campaign.

is it your experience that variant ammo rules result in this realistic equipping occuring?

Yes, and no, it is my experience that sound rules for variant ammo adds realism to the game, when that variant ammo is introduced in a logical, true-to-life (or at least, true-to-genre) and above all balanced manner.

Sneak a peak at Ultramodern Firearms next time your in your local hobby dunge- er, shop. The Ammo chapter is short, and the author's intro argues my point much better than I can.