Wandering Monsters: How Tough?

[airwalkrr]

Keep in mind that there are several encounters of high CR (like, say, ancient red dragons!) that low-level PCs are incapable of effectively evading, let alone overcoming. Unless you make up a really good reason for that dragon not to just snack on the PCs, he will. He can see further, move faster, and bring them down in a round.

Dragons IMC never devour PCs like feral animals. They like to play with them, even if they are evil. If a CR 20 dragon pops up near a level 5 party, the dragon is going to be far more entertained by compelling them to take on a silly quest than he is going to be if he eats them. Not like such paltry snacks would offer much nourishment to a dragon anyway. Note that random encounter != hostile encounter by necessity.

 

[frankthedm]

Also, the bigger they are, the farther away the PCs can see them. Collosal Red wandering on the wing? Let the PCs decide if it keeps on wandering.

 

[AuraSeer]

I only use random encounters for low-level parties. The vast majority of wandering monsters are things they can handle, like animals, or a small pack of goblinoids, or stuff of that level. This is not because those encounters follow them around; it's because the vast majority of all encounters in the world are with low-CR creatures.

If just walking through the woods had a large chance of running you into a powerful monster, there would be no such thing as commoners, because they'd all have long ago been eaten by dragons and beholders and fire giants. In my worlds, those monsters are rare enough to be surprising and frightening to ordinary people. They're not just hiding behind every rock and tree, so a low-level party will rarely stumble into them by accident.

A mid- to high-level party has few random encounters for several reasons. First, they've got higher Survival skills and better travel magic, so they're better at avoiding unnecessary trouble. Second, when they do come across the odd wolf pack or kobold den, they dispatch it with so little trouble and risk, it's not even worth rolling dice. Third and most important: by the time the PCs are high level, the players are used to having important quests that make a difference in their world. I find it boring to waste time fighting some random giants, when we could instead be going after the interesting villains who have real goals and a definable personality.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Qft.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Dragons IMC never devour PCs like feral animals. They like to play with them, even if they are evil. If a CR 20 dragon pops up near a level 5 party, the dragon is going to be far more entertained by compelling them to take on a silly quest than he is going to be if he eats them. Not like such paltry snacks would offer much nourishment to a dragon anyway. Note that random encounter != hostile encounter by necessity.

No, but that does come across as a contrived encounter... especially if it happens more than once in a campaign.

Incidentally, frankthedm, an ancient red dragon "sees twice as far as a human in normal light" AND has a +44 Spot modifier. Compare to your average 5th-level PC and see who'll spot the other first. Either the dragon wants to interact with them, or the encounter technically shouldn't even occur.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

*Red Dragon swoops down*

Bring me....a shrubbery!

 

[Raven Crowking]

Keep in mind that there are several encounters of high CR (like, say, ancient red dragons!) that low-level PCs are incapable of effectively evading, let alone overcoming. Unless you make up a really good reason for that dragon not to just snack on the PCs, he will. He can see further, move faster, and bring them down in a round. I think that's what Ipsissimus means by "running with scissors."

The last true dragon wandering encounter my group had was at night, during one PC's watch. The PC saw the outline of the dragon against the moon as it was en route to somewhere else.

As others have noted, an wandering encounter does not have to be a meeting with the beast itself. It can well be a meeting with signs that the beast is around. Giant owl pellets, the remains of a half-eaten elephant, tracks, and a wierd howl or the scent of something strange that makes the horses shy away are all perfectly good "encounters".

Even meeting with monsters does not necessarily mean a fight. The orcs might decide that the parties are about evenly matched and try to bluff a toll. The dragon might be seeking information about something and stop to demand it. The lions might have just fed (please notice the carcass lying nearby) and be unwilling to do more than watch and give warning growls unless the players provoke them.

Wandering encounters can allow the players to learn something about the world; they do not all have to be combats.

EDITS: (1) I will say this, though, some "Wandering Encounters" should be planned encounters. If you are going to have a dragon actually interact with low-level PCs, you shouldn't be hoping to come up with something off the top of your head. You should know exactly what that dragon wants, and why.

(2) I do agree with the general idea that most encounters are with low-power creatures, animals, and the like because otherwise there would be no commoners. Even high-level characters should have the opportunity of dispatching these encounters from time to time, just so that they can revel in their power.

 

[hong]

A wandering monster should be just tough enough to kiss the ground.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

Wandering monsters and random encounters tend to get people taking sides. They always have.

I generally prefer to have/use pretty extensive encounter tables with extremely small chances of running into more difficult creatures. Animal encounters predominate in most wilderness and are either ignored with a simple "You spot a group of deer in the distance." or something similar. Sometimes I'll say, "<character name> gets off a quick shot, looks like venison tonight." Wilderness encounters are almost always avoidable if the PCs are careful. The style of your players can have a profound effect on the use of random encounters. If they attack everything on sight, well, that could get bad.

If you roll a 2 on the Survival check (because nobody has ranks in it) and camp right above a cave smelling of carrion, well, that could be bad too ...

Encounter tables for my world also generally follow rumors the PCs might get of certain areas. For example, there is an area of mountains known to contain groups of giants, trolls, and tribes of kobolds (that happen to specialize in use of alchemical fire and fire magic-reasonable due to the many trolls; they also have small cave entrances...). The chances of running into trolls, hill giants, or kobold hunting or war parties is much higher there. The chance of running into human brigands etc. is practically non-existant. Wider swaths of wilderness I do use Mother of All Encounter Tables but I am happy to throw away results that don't make sense. I do not, however, tailor things due to CR/EL etc.

Oddly, any deaths I have had from random encounters have been at the hands (or tusks) of something below the Party's challenge level and were all due to incredible bad luck (or good, depending on your point of view) with the dice. Nobody has ever had bad feelings about those deaths and most circumstances surrounding them were actually quite funny.

There are tons of ways to give PCs hints that there are "bad things out there man, bad things ..." the forest might be eerily quiet and devoid of life, scorch marks along the trail road, the decimated, clawed wreck of a caravan, etc. When you roll an encounter you don't have the ancient red dragon drop out of thin air onto the party saying "what's up doc?" I view a random encounter as a chance to add flavor to the world, give it some spice and danger and imbue it with some fear. If the PCs respond appropriately, perhaps simply by changing direction or hiding, then they can avoid the encounter entirely, marking it on their maps and burning into their memories, "here thar be dragons."


Patrick

 

[Garnfellow]

I think, from a philosophical level, I don't mind having random encounter tables with a wide range of ELs, including some that would be overwhelming to the PCs. I like that it adds a bit of verisimilitude to the setting, and one can gain a lot of role-playing fun as the PCs hide, terrified, from a truly deadly monster like a big ole dragon or a hungry t-rex.

But both those examples (as well as most of the ones described elsewhere in this thread) are large, scary monsters that can be readily spotted and identified from a distance. Only truly foolish players would attack a colossal dragon without the necessary strength, and if they did attack, then they deserve the fiery doom that awaits.

But in practice, D&D has several metric butt-loads of monsters that are not readily spotted or identified as devastating threats. Here's a flying, 20 HD creature with a vorpal bite that looks just like a cute little bunny rabbit! Here’s an incorporeal, Huge undead that inflicts 1d4 negative levels to everything within 60 ft! Hitting your 3rd-level party with such encounters isn't just unfair, it’s downright crazy. By the time the poor players realized they were outmatched, it would be much too late.

What's got me thinking about all this is that I am working on a conversion of the old drow modules, and I'm looking at some of the random underworld encounter tables there. In general, most of these listed encounters convert over to 3e encounters far, far weaker than the rest of the adventure.

So I am wondering whether I should leave them be, as they are "just" random encounters, or if I should beef them up to make them worthwhile. Some entries are just plain unsalvageable -- like fire beetles. As window dressing, I love the image of fire beetles crawling all over the dark depths of the earth. But as an encounter, they aren’t worth any more time than statting out a Small swarm of gnats in a swamp.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are 1d4+1 ropers listed, with an average EL of 15 -- way above my target encounter level (11), as well as above all other encounters on the chart. Ropers are also an iconic "hard to spot and identify" monster. In this example, I am adjusting the numbers to just 1 roper.