Warden AC Gimped Defender ?
- Thread starter Istar
- Start date
Yep on my list, and combined with Resilent Focus that adds +2 to ST's (good flor wardens).
Do you think the Warden save at start of turn, and the extra save vs daze / stun, actually stack ?
renau1g
First Post
"FONT OF LIFE
At the start of your turn, you can make a saving throw against one effect that a save can end. On a save, the effect immediately ends, preventing it from affecting you on your current turn. If you save against being stunned or dazed, you can act normally on your turn. If you save against ongoing damage, you avoid taking the damage.
If you fail the saving throw, you still make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn." - Compendium
Superior Will
"if you are dazed or stunned, you can make a saving throw at the start of your turn to end that effect, even if the effect doesn’t normally end on a save" - Compendium
The benefit of superior Will is that if you are Dazed until end of next turn, you can't use Font of Life, but Superior Will grants you a save. Also, if you are say dazed (save ends) and Ongoing 10 damage (save ends) you can use Superior Will against the dazed effect and the Font of Life against the damage.
As you have probably noticed, as you level up multiple effects at the satrt of your turn are pretty common and dazing effects are more common also. The more chances you get to throw off an effect, the better (IMO)
At the start of your turn, you can make a saving throw against one effect that a save can end. On a save, the effect immediately ends, preventing it from affecting you on your current turn. If you save against being stunned or dazed, you can act normally on your turn. If you save against ongoing damage, you avoid taking the damage.
If you fail the saving throw, you still make a saving throw against the effect at the end of your turn." - Compendium
Superior Will
"if you are dazed or stunned, you can make a saving throw at the start of your turn to end that effect, even if the effect doesn’t normally end on a save" - Compendium
The benefit of superior Will is that if you are Dazed until end of next turn, you can't use Font of Life, but Superior Will grants you a save. Also, if you are say dazed (save ends) and Ongoing 10 damage (save ends) you can use Superior Will against the dazed effect and the Font of Life against the damage.
As you have probably noticed, as you level up multiple effects at the satrt of your turn are pretty common and dazing effects are more common also. The more chances you get to throw off an effect, the better (IMO)
Dazed does not disallow the use of Font of Life. Dazed means that the afflicted can take only one action in a turn. Font of Life doesn't use an action, and is unaffected.
dazed said:
Superior Will would really come into play only when the warden is Dazed/stunned and has another effect, like you said. But, in the case of a daze or stun alone, Font of Life works. That said, there's really no reason not to take it if you have the Wisdom, and you will as a warden unless you consciously sabotage your own characters.
Here's the question, though: obviously, you're going to roll these saves in succession, but do they happen in succession? What I mean is, if I fail to save against the daze via Superior Will, can I then attempt to save via Font of Life? I'm not sure if I would allow it (being able to make one save attempt at the start of your turn is already a hell of a bonus), but I can see the logic behind it.
renau1g
First Post
That's right, but what I said was that you can make a save against an effect that would last until the end of your next turn. That includes non-save ends effects (like any of the 682 creatures in the compendium when I searched for Dazed until end of next turn)
Gratuitous Violence (weapon) Recharge
Attack: Melee 1 (one or two creatures); +6 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d12 + 4 damage (crit 1d12 + 16), and the target is dazed until the end of Krayd’s next turn.
But it can come into play when you encounter any of the aforementioned creatures who can daze without a save allowed, or against the 365 monsters who stun until the end of next turn.
I would allow it myself as the PC spent a feat and is using one of their best (IMO) class features. Besides, Daze/Stun suck against PC's and I try to use them sparingly.
Ferghis
Explorer
I agree that both Superior Will and Font of Life saves coul be used to try to remove a save-ends daze or stun effect on the same turn. These are extremely debilitating effects for a defender, and some of the most frequent effect creatures impose. Further, many even consider the effect "unfun." It's only fair to let a PC who has invested a feat (or two, with Focused Discipline) to use every tool they have to get rid of them.
I get you now. I was hung up on the wrong part of what you were saying. My bad. And, fully agreed.
Yeah I had to read it a couple of times to get the gist of it too, so you werent alone.
But brilliant points gentlemen, and why Resilent Focus works so nicely with Superior Will, on a Warden
Chuck in Coif of Focus, and you have an even nicer combo.
What is this feat called "Focused Discipline" ??
It doesnt ring any bells straight off the bat.
But Polearm Gamble and Superior Will both key off a half decent Wisdom, and Warden / Goliath both do well on will, so looking forward to Will being not too bad.
Ferghis
Explorer
My mistake: I meant resilient focus. Sorry about confusing things further.
