Warhammer 3e Demo Experiences -OR- How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bits

[jadrax]

It's the number one RPG seller on Amazon at the moment - although what that's worth or says could mean anything.

Amazon sales ranking for pre-orders are notoriously wonky, until its on sale and actually shipping I would not trust them at all.

 

[arscott]

I *hate* this dice resolution system. I, as a player or DM, LIKE knowing my odds before I roll the dice and I'm not seeing this system as easy to roughly calculate on the fly (and yes, I disliked intensely Shadowrun/Vampire bucketfull of dice for the same reason)

For dice pool systems, I've found an "expected results" gauge to be more useful -- for example, In the storytelling system, you can expect one success for every three dice you roll. A similar system can apply to WFRP3 dice (though the multiple die types and various resulting symbols obviously make things more complicated.)

Dice are available for sale separately, but only in a pre-selected pack.

Yeah, but any flgs worth their salt will bust open some of those packs and sell the dice as singles.

 

[Hand of Evil]

See all thes post and no where do a see a "grim world of perilous adventure or dark and gritty". The system does not appear to generate that atmosphere but more pulp adventure. I am not saying that is a bad thing but that is not WFRP; pulp heroes have a bounce to them, gritty heroes don't.

 

[wolff96]

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't recall any demand for such a thing from Warhammer FRP fans; the 2nd edition seems to have been well received, especially -- but not only -- by those who saw it as at last fixing shortcomings (e.g., in magic rules) that had been evident ere the first edition went out the Workshop door onto the sales floor.

As one of the Warhammer FRP fans, I can speak for myself and my group: We're not going anywhere. I'm going to be checking the game out if I get a chance, but purely for my own curiousity as a system-junkie.

There's only one problem with 2e in our humble opinion: It's hard to find the books since they went out of print!

-----------------------------

I realize why FFG has made this decision. I can even empathize with their need to turn a profit. But I (as a consumer) can't stand the whole "expansion pack" mentality that seems to have enveloped gaming lately. One could argue that it goes back a long ways -- especially with the GURPs library, but to use a current example: D&D 4e releases new books all the time. (D&D 3e did the same thing at slightly less regular intervals, this is edition non-specific.)

New classes, new monsters, new options. As a company, this is good strategy as long as you can maintain interest. ESPECIALLY when the new options are for players. There's always been a lot more players than DMs, so it increases possible revenue.

I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know here, I'm sure... but a big part of the fundamental identity of Warhammer are their terrible starting careers -- your destination and ambition are what matters, not where you started.

But if I can't even be a Ratcatcher (with his small, but vicious dog) without buying an expansion pack, that's kind of a big deal to me. Maybe that's just me.

 

[DMfromdimensionX]

I totally agree with wolf96. 2e was great and did not need any update system-wise. I said it before in this thread, FFG should have just put the team behind the Midnight setting on doing expansion areas, monster guides and adventures. Maybe an expanded Campaign guide 2 with more equipment and careers that focuses on another area of the old world, bretonnia or kislev maybe.

But totally revamping a system that was great and satisfied its fans and turning it into some sort of cross between hero quest and magic the gathering just doesnt feel right to me. While it might be a fun game it doesnt look or feel like warhammer IMO. And i never particularly liked any board games or card games anyway. So FFG bringing those elements in is a big turn off for me.

I know they lost a regular Warhammer purchaser in me with this one and no one else i have talked to that liked 1e or 2e is interested in this either. They might bring in new fans, but its gonna have to be enough to build an entirely new fanbase from scratch.

 

[Ssadral]

Yeah, but any flgs worth their salt will bust open some of those packs and sell the dice as singles.

Really? Why in the world, you as a game store owner, would open prepackaged dice- specialty dice for one game- to sell them individually, when you could sell the whole pack of dice even if the customer only lost/needed one or two of the dice in the pack?

Breaking open the dice pack makes absolutely no sense.

But totally revamping a system that was great and satisfied its fans and turning it into some sort of cross between hero quest and magic the gathering just doesnt feel right to me. While it might be a fun game it doesn't look or feel like warhammer IMO. And i never particularly liked any board games or card games anyway. So FFG bringing those elements in is a big turn off for me.

Well, I think this is the point. They already have hardcore fans, and any company loves their regulars, but there are two things at work here that most companies know. Even though there is much teeth mashing and hand wringing by their loyal customers, about things like, we don't need a new system, the feel I got from Warhammer is taken out by this new edition etc. is usually short term and most dedicated fans will buy into the new edition. Some won't, but that segment is so small that point number 2 will make up for it.

Secondly, Warhammer 3e was created to bring new blood into the fold. And, making a big splash like this they have the gaming world all a buzz and people who had never considered Warhammer before are now looking at it. And, as many dedicated fans they may lose, is made up ten fold by new blood.

You see it all the time... with the biggest example being D&D 4e.

 

[DMfromdimensionX]

Well, I think this is the point. They already have hardcore fans, and any company loves their regulars, but there are two things at work here that most companies know. Even though there is much teeth mashing and hand wringing by their loyal customers, about things like, we don't need a new system, the feel I got from Warhammer is taken out by this new edition etc. is usually short term and most dedicated fans will buy into the new edition. Some won't, but that segment is so small that point number 2 will make up for it.

Secondly, Warhammer 3e was created to bring new blood into the fold. And, making a big splash like this they have the gaming world all a buzz and people who had never considered Warhammer before are now looking at it. And, as many dedicated fans they may lose, is made up ten fold by new blood.

You see it all the time... with the biggest example being D&D 4e.

Warhammer is a different beast then D&D though. The first edition came out in 86, since then there have been a total of 2 editions, with this 3rd forthcoming. Compare that to what 4 or 5 official editions of D&D and countless D20 spinoffs? Many of those years in between 86 and now the material was totally unsupported and survived only on fan publications as well.

D&D players are used to jumping editions and having serious company support and consistent new products. Warhammer players are much more comfortable just using a core book and all thier own work and telling the parent company to take a long walk off a short cliff, granted games workshop made some pretty boneheaded decisions that necessitated this but still warhammer players on the whole dont feel a great need to go along with whoever holds the license and play a core, supported game.

Assuming that a majority will eventually jump ship just because most D&Ders jumped to 3.5 (4th ed is still much debatable about whether a majority are gonna jump to it, or stick with it if they do) is working with a faulty baseline logic that the player bases have similar expectations. When it comes to bringing in new players, i honestly dont see people who like a traditional roleplaying game of any stripe taking this and turning it into their regular long term game of choice for campaigns. Some people are interested, some of those will buy it. But will enough who buy it, have enough interest that they will continue putting money into the expansions that a company needs to be able to sell to thrive? Personally i dont think so, its a niche, of a niche market that they are going for with this and i think its gonna bite them on the butt.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Really? Why in the world, you as a game store owner, would open prepackaged dice- specialty dice for one game- to sell them individually, when you could sell the whole pack of dice even if the customer only lost/needed one or two of the dice in the pack?

Breaking open the dice pack makes absolutely no sense.

It makes a lot of sense. I'm already losing money by buying from a local store instead of from Amazon or other online retailer. I buy from the lfgs because they go out of there way to do things Amazon won't or can't. Being nice enough to sell me the ONE die I need instead of forcing me to buy a 6 pack will get me to buy the next $40 book there instead of for $24.95 elsewhere.

 

[Mournblade94]

After I played this, I wonder how much of 4e success has influenced FFG. I don't know why FFG changed the mechanics so drastically but it is another RPG distilled to Board game. We already have that with 4e; now you can choose between 2 fantasy board game/rpg's. I don't see how this is going to help FFG especially since 4e is simpler.

For fantasy board games I vastly prefer Talisman over WHFRP. Granted the mechanics are not similar.

I didn't play through the whole demo, I left halfway through and decided reading comics would be a better way to spend my time.

Just another reason to be thankful for PAIZO, HERO, and mutants and masterminds...

 

[Asmor]

I didn't play through the whole demo, I left halfway through and decided reading comics would be a better way to spend my time.

Wow. That seems terribly rude to me. Walking out in the middle of an RPG session and leaving everyone else hanging? Lame.