Warhorses: Attack on their own?

[Cloudgatherer]

I had a player last night (elven rogue) attempting to use his warhorse to flank during battle. So here's the deal: one their own and without handle animal is it reasonable to have the warhorse attack on the characters behalf?

I figured the horse would just get out of the way, but my player argued the "war" horse is trained specifically for this, without needing handle animal or even being on the horse to guide it.

I tend to disagree with him, so I'm asking for some rules opinions.

 

[pontus]

I play warhorses as willing to defend themselves, but not as bloodlusting monsters. Unless there's a rider urging the warhorse into battle it will mind its own business, killing whatever attacks it and ignoring the rest. If a character wishes to get his animal to participate more then it requires even more training.

 

[UofMDude]

Warhorses are trained to not freak out in combat and to step on things their rider wants them to. Beyond that I'd say that someone needs to spend some time teaching their horse tricks (with Handle Animal.

Basically if a player starts doing things with their animal that I do not think the animal would be smart enough to do, I (as DM) am going to start directing the animal's actions.

UofMDude

 

[Rashak Mani]

A specific "attack" command should be necessary...

What about a horse that feels very friendly to his rider would defend him ? After all the best defense is offense... the horse will attack creatures nearby even if they arent giving him direct attention. Sort of like being scared/panicked and lashing out.

 

[Staldin*Freefall]

My party had a the problem of a warhors which we rolled the stats for and it came up with an intelligence of 6, which ended up being some sort of malicious Mister Ed that was rather unpredictable in its motives, whether it would attack the enemies or perhaps hope to tak out his dismounted rider in an attempt at freeing itself. Can't say it was played entirely correctly, but it made things interesting.

 

[UofMDude]

Sure, a horse will attack things nearby. It probably wouldn't take much training to do this. But getting your horse to circle around an enemy, probably staying outside the reach of it's weapon, and then close in to flank it - that's "juuuuust a bit outside".

UofMDude

 

[Jack Haggerty]

I'd tend to nix this, unless...

Either he himself, or someone he's hired has made a Handle Animal check at DC 15 to spend two months traiing the horse to "attack"...

Teach an Animal Tasks: This means to teach a domestic animal some tricks. The character can train one type of animal per rank (chosen when the ranks are purchased) to obey commands and perform simple tricks. The character can work with up to three animals at one time, and the character can teach them general tasks. An animal can be trained for one general purpose only.

So, the horse has already been trained for war, he just needs to learn the trick to "attack" when not mounted. Also remember that horses only have an Int of 2, and so should [not] use appropriate tactics.

 

[kreynolds]

I basically treat a horse as an animal. It eats, sleeps, ...does other stuff, and basically minds it's own business. If something bugs it, the horse will try to kick it in the face. If not, it's going to just do horse stuff...which is basically nothing useful.

Having a horse trained to help you in battle, when you aren't riding it, is in my opinion, something that is reserved for Druids and Paladins. These are classes that earn mounts and animal companions. Otherwise, your horse is just a horse.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

I basically treat a horse as an animal. It eats, sleeps, ...does other stuff, and basically minds it's own business. If something bugs it, the horse will try to kick it in the face. If not, it's going to just do horse stuff...which is basically nothing useful.

Having a horse trained to help you in battle, when you aren't riding it, is in my opinion, something that is reserved for Druids and Paladins. These are classes that earn mounts and animal companions. Otherwise, your horse is just a horse.

Druids and Paladins only, eh?

What does your standard knight ride then?

Warhorses are "bred for strength and aggression", and trained to fight with a rider mounted. There's nothing particularly special or magical about these animals, they're just bred and trained for a different purpose than your average riding horse.

From the SRD:

"Heavy Warhorse

These animals are similar to heavy horses but are trained and bred for strength and aggression. A heavy warhorse can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds at a Ride check (DC 10).

Carrying Capacity: A light load for a heavy warhorse is up to 300 pounds; a medium load, 301-600 pounds; a heavy load, 601-900 pounds. A heavy warhorse can drag 4,500 pounds."


Historically, "warhorses" were big... On par with Clydesdales. They neede to be to carry all the weight of the knight, his weapons, his armor and the horse's barding while charging across a battlefield.

Most of these horses were throughly trained for combat... To not bolt at loud noises and the smell of blood... To help put its momentum behind the knight's blow... To bite and kick at nearby aggressors... And so on. Though they usually did these at the command of someone riding them, rather than someone standing nearby.

Reread the rules, pal... and your history books.

 

[Shin Okada]

I think trained horses can attack things nearby, only with their master's vocal command. But I do not think they are clever enough to distinguish friends from foes in the middle of confused fight. So they will attack everything nearby. Also, they are not clever enough to take "flanking position" by themselves. Even with handle animal skill check, I say that much complex guidance is not a free action. If I were you, I will tell that PC to take standard action for this.