Warlock and Sorcerer

[tlantl]

A longbow (with +3 dex) does 2 damage less that a greatsword on average, so the fighter still does a bit more damage, at least at 1st and 5th level. It also has triple the range, and it's held by a dude with more HP, better AC, and damage reduction on call.

I'm more concerned with the level 5 sorcerer casting 8 Acid Arrows (or 4 Acid Arrows and 8 Burning Hands) a day. Isn't that a bit much?

Yes I agree and this will only get worse as the player gains levels. This is my biggest issue with spell points. At some point the caster is going to be able to cast a lot of those infamous "I win" spells. Way more than a vancian wizard ever could.

It doesn't do much for the 5 minute work day either. And going nova never looked so good!

 

[Falling Icicle]

Wow. I must say I'm really impressed! These classes are really interesting and flavorful.

The warlock especially is very cool. It's like a really cool mix of both the 3.5 and 4e warlock, with a pinch of binder. I love how the powers come with minor personality quirks, though I would like to be able to choose how learning an invocation affects my character's personality.

The sorcerer is just... wow. Hella powerful. I think they should make the wizard's vancian casting work more like the cleric's, where they can cast prepared spells in any combination, up to their daily limit. I think they should also remove the armor restriction from wizard spells.

I think they should give sorcerers more than 2 cantrips.

The sorcerer gaining more bloodline traits as he spends willpower is a very cool and flavorful mechanic. It gives sorcerers something to do when they're low on spells but also encourages them to not horde their spell points.

It says a warlock starts with 2 favors, but does he not get any more as he increases in level? I haven't found any mention of that. It would be dumb if warlocks were stuck with only 2 encounter powers forever.

I love how the warlock can learn ritual spells, including even some cleric rituals. Very cool.

I hope warlocks get invocations that last for more than one turn. I miss my 3.5 warlock that had fell flight all day.

The progression tables are the only thing that really strike me as odd. I have no idea why sorcerers don't get magic attack bonuses and save DC progression at the same rate wizards do, and I have no idea why warlock save DCs scale faster than even the wizard's do.

 

[MoonSong]

The sorcerer is just... wow. Hella powerful. I think they should make the wizard's vancian casting work more like the cleric's, where they can cast prepared spells in any combination, up to their daily limit. I think they should also remove the armor restriction from wizard spells.

[...]

The progression tables are the only thing that really strike me as odd. I have no idea why sorcerers don't get magic attack bonuses and save DC progression at the same rate wizards do, and I have no idea why warlock save DCs scale faster than even the wizard's do.

To the first one, no way, Wizards are already too powerfull and too flexible overall, giving them also tactical flexibility truly is asking for problems, I wouldn't want to go there at all. As for casting on armor, that shouldn't be available to all wizards, as it goes agaisnt tradition, fluff and fairness. The justificqation for Sorcerers (and so far is only draconic sorcerers) and Warlocks to be able to cast in armor is simple: A warlock's patron is already doing the heavy lifting for him and for a sorcerer casting is like breathing or fighting while for a wizard is an exact science with little room for variation. A wizard should have to give away a lot of flexibility for him to wear armor.

And warlock's spell dc's grow at the same rate than wizard's. Perhaps some bloodlines will allow the sorcerer to scale at the same rate and some won't.

 

[Pour]

Loving the flavor differences represented as distinct classes. Magic is suddenly a lot more interesting. As a 4e fan, having two other magical options really soothes my Vancian dissatisfaction. I'm a huge sucker for specific pacts and bloodlines, and there's just so much potential there for awesome patrons and sorcerer sources.

As mentioned earlier, lets give the druid and the bard something nice, too. And throw in an alternate Divine method, as well.

 

[tlantl]

The sorcerer gaining more bloodline traits as he spends willpower is a very cool and flavorful mechanic. It gives sorcerers something to do when they're low on spells but also encourages them to not horde their spell points.

Sorcerers are never low on spells of the have will power points left.

Those blood line powers seem like something some other class could use better. All I could see while putting together a sorcerer character how nicely those powers would work with a martial character, say the fighter.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

Sorcerers are never low on spells of the have will power points left.

Those blood line powers seem like something some other class could use better. All I could see while putting together a sorcerer character how nicely those powers would work with a martial character, say the fighter.

Yeah I agree... if the Fighter fighting styles were as cool as the Sorcerer Bloodlines and the Bloodline Powers...now that would make an epic Fighter.

The Fighter needs a blanket increase to it's Damage Dealt... It should do the most damage in melee and have the most martial options as masters of melee combat.

Regarding Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks... IMO the Wizards just got very lame. Having to prepare multiple copies of the same spell to cast it more than once in a day, uh forget that. That's lame. I'm going to change that in my own games to flexible vancian casting.

The Draconic Bloodline is a good example of the potential of the game, but Sorcerers are badass.

Now they really need to give the Cleric more Channel Divinities per day, just to keep up.

And Warlocks... IMO the best Class in the playtest packet, both flavorwise but just all-round... a very cool mesh of 3e and 4e Warlocks into something new.

 

[gyor]

To the first one, no way, Wizards are already too powerfull and too flexible overall, giving them also tactical flexibility truly is asking for problems, I wouldn't want to go there at all. As for casting on armor, that shouldn't be available to all wizards, as it goes agaisnt tradition, fluff and fairness. The justificqation for Sorcerers (and so far is only draconic sorcerers) and Warlocks to be able to cast in armor is simple: A warlock's patron is already doing the heavy lifting for him and for a sorcerer casting is like breathing or fighting while for a wizard is an exact science with little room for variation. A wizard should have to give away a lot of flexibility for him to wear armor.

And warlock's spell dc's grow at the same rate than wizard's. Perhaps some bloodlines will allow the sorcerer to scale at the same rate and some won't.

Plus Warlocks outside of Rituals don't cast normal spells, invocations don't require the whole song and dance, thier forbidden pieces,of knowledge, powerful fragments, like words,in forbidden languages or stolen piece of Fey beauty you simply unleash. They use violations of reality, not spells so it makes sense they can,use armour as that doesn't interfer in that.

 

[Falling Icicle]

To the first one, no way, Wizards are already too powerfull and too flexible overall, giving them also tactical flexibility truly is asking for problems, I wouldn't want to go there at all.

I disagree. Preparation is a big enough limit, I don't think it's necessary to have to guess how many fireballs I might need on any given day. If it doesn't break the cleric, I don't see why it would break the wizard.

As for casting on armor, that shouldn't be available to all wizards, as it goes agaisnt tradition, fluff and fairness. The justificqation for Sorcerers (and so far is only draconic sorcerers) and Warlocks to be able to cast in armor is simple: A warlock's patron is already doing the heavy lifting for him and for a sorcerer casting is like breathing or fighting while for a wizard is an exact science with little room for variation. A wizard should have to give away a lot of flexibility for him to wear armor.

Just to clarify, I would remove the restriction from casting spells in armor, but I wouldn't give wizards any armor proficiencies by default. Some traditions, like warmages, might have that option, though.

 

[Grimmjow]

personally i hope that sorcs get the point system and warlocks are something close to 4e with the pacts giving them different powers.

 

[Ichneumon]

If there's something beyond lesser invocations, I'd predict it to cost multiple favors, especially if you get more than two at higher levels.

These two classes are off to a great start, and I look forward to seeing future variants. Especially the star pact warlock.