Warlock core class (Complete Arcane)

[KaintheSeeker]

I'm being thick possibly

Why can't you use the 'meta' spell-like ability to enhance Eledich blast?

(Of course I'm still tweaking the villian of my story who is a fighter/warlock with a great sword, LOTS of strength and that oh so nice 'channel my blasts through one hit' trick

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

by a strict interpretation of the rules, you can't because there's a limit on the equivalent level of the spell-like ability that can be augmented, and the equivalent spell level of your Eldritch Blast is too high.

Of course, also by a strict interpretation of the rules, you _can_ augment hideous blow this way, which makes no sense at all.

It's obvious by the examples they give that the Warlock was playtested without this restriction. It's annoying that WoTC doesn't know their own rules, but I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, given the fact that WoTC support contradicts itself frequently.

Ken

 

[UltimaGabe]

They should work with the invocations, just not with the Eldritch Blast, or not?

Bye
Thanee

Yes, but the issue with the feats is that in Complete Arcane, their example is Eldritch Blast- that is, in their Feat Entries in Complete Arcane, the specifically single out Eldritch Blast as eligible for the feat, when Elritch Blast doesn't even qualify for it.

They should probably work with the hideous blow, too, because it's an invocation that deals eldritch blast damage, not eldritch blast itself.

Afraid not. Hideous Blow is a Blast Shape Invocation- which means that although it has its own spell level, it uses its level or the Eldritch Blast's spell level, whichever is higher. And the spell level of an Eldritch Blast is the reason that it can't be used with the Meta-spell like ability feats.

Why can't you use the 'meta' spell-like ability to enhance Eledich blast?

Well, in order to take Empower Spell-Like Ability, the Spell-like Ability chosen has to have a spell level of half of the caster level -2. So if the spell-like ability is Burning Hands (2nd-level spell), the caster level for this ability has to be at least 8 (half of the caster level is 4, -2 is 2). This works fine for Spell-Like Abilities that actually emulate spells, since they have a static spell level that doesn't change. However, if I'm not mistaken, Eldritch Blast has a caster level equal to half the Warlock's level (so an 18th-level Warlock uses it at caster level 9th), and the Eldritch Blast's spell level changes as the Warlock increases in level, counting as a spell of a level equal to half of the Warlock's level (with a maximum of 9)- so at 18th-level, Eldritch Blast counts as a 9th-level spell. Since 9 is far more than half of 9 minus 2, then it's impossible even to Empower an Eldritch Blast. Maximize and Quicken have even higher prerequisites, so those are out the window as well.

WotC just kinda showed everybody how little they check their own work (in case they didn't already know) with the release of Complete Arcane. It's a great book, there's just one or two things that don't make any sense.

 

[iksander]

can you lower the eldritch blasts level? Instead of casting the max dice eldritch blast, you opt for the lesser die blast to add the maximize, quicken, or empower spell like ability feat?

 

[Khaalis]

This has been discussed in great depth on the WotC boards and the answer is... No, lowering the damage dice/caster level does not work. The Eldritch Blast's level and its dice have nothing to do with one another. Unlike a spell such as fireball, that's damage dice is based on the caster level, EB doesnt follow this rule.

The caster level of an EB is always 1/2 of the Warlock's class level (to max of 9th) for determining DC, ability to overcome SR and spells like globe of invulnerability. The damage dice done by the EB is not based off of the caster level, instead being based purely on its own specified level progression.

Example:
Caster Level increases at: 1, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18.
EB Damage dice increase at: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 14, 17, 20.

Hope that clarifies.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Does anyone know why they made its caster level so crappy, by the way? I mean, the other Invocations use the Warlock's class level as its caster level (meaning they'll almost always have a chance to overcome spell resistance and whatnot) whereas Eldritch Blast will always have a caster level equal to half the Warlock's class level (meaning it'll almost never have a chance to overcome decent spell resistance of CRs of the Warlock's level). What's the deal? Did they think it was too powerful with a full caster level?

 

[KaintheSeeker]

I hope they clarify.. I mean the warlock is a fun varient.. (till these issues came up was considering adding it to the arcane side of the core classes in my game).


Eldrick blast DEFINITELY is a key point in the whole class and needs to be clarified fixed.

Still my uber bad guy in my story is a Fighter/Warlock with a humongous greatsword. (need to figure what sort of weapon a CR 21 critter has)

 

[Fedifensor]

The caster level of an EB is always 1/2 of the Warlock's class level (to max of 9th) for determining DC, ability to overcome SR and spells like globe of invulnerability. The damage dice done by the EB is not based off of the caster level, instead being based purely on its own specified level progression.

Er, are you sure about that? It seems more likely that the text is referring to SPELL level, which means the 9th level cap makes sense. Spell level, not caster level, is used to determine DC.

 

[saucercrab]

UltimaGabe,
What Fedifensor said. You're mixing up the equivalent spell level & caster level of the eldritch blast.

 

[Merlion]

I havent really investigated the mechanics of the Warlock that much, mainly because I'm so disgusted at what they did with it thematically.

It has alignment restrictions, which I loathe. Its forced into a specfic set origin (which is basically just a variation of the Sorcerers) and to top it off they insist on making it a "dark" class. All or nearly all its class abilities and invocations are somehow "fiendish" dark or evil-themed in flavour , name, and/or effect.

They seem to have forgotten how to make a class that you can choose how to roleplay from more than a few possibilities. It'd be almost impossible to play a purely good warlock without a lot of thematic baggage that even influences what you can and cant do mechanically.